Insimenator.org

Hey guys, I'm kinda a lurker here, but I've encountered an issue with my game that I could use some help with.  

Using SimPe I converted some Adult skins for use by teens and they look great (for the most part), but I've noticed that there is some slight discoloration in the neck.  

Is there any way to correct this?  Maybe through stretching the default mesh or something?  I think there are some talented people over here, and I would value your input.

Thanks.

I have never tried it but tonight after the kids go to bed I'll take a look and see what happens and if there is a fix for it.

Thanks for taking a look at it Kathy.

Any luck last night?

None I wasn't able to replicate it. Can you post a picture of an example?

The problem arises from the fact that adult meshes are 6% larger than the teen meshes.  The length of the neck in the adult is also longer than the teen, so the neck from an adult mesh will protrude into the mesh that makes up the teen head.  I am dealing with this very problem as we speak with InTeen since some of the outfits are derived from adult meshes.  What you need to do is download Milkeshape, export the GMDC from SimPE, use Wes_H body chop plugin to import the GMDC mesh into body chop, scale the entire mesh by 94%, then adjust the neck verticies (the latter will take some trial and error).  You'll then re-export the GMDC using Body Chop, finally importing the new mesh back into the package file using SimPE.  It's important that you use the REPLACE (right click and then Replace) functionality and not the GMDC Import/Export - as it does not deal with bones or body morphs (fat/pregnant) correctly. The idea is to get the lower neck vertices of the head to line up with the upper neck vertices of the body.  When you do this, the surface normals for those polys will align correctly and the light will fall evenly across that seam.

In short:

1. Extract the adult GMDC mesh as .5gd file using SimPE
2. Open Milkshape and choose Import > Body Chop and open the .5gd file you created in Step #1
3. Use the scaling utility (in Milkshape) under Tools to scale the mesh to 94% of its original size
4. Lower the ten neck verticies (and move them back slightly).  
5. Use Export > Body Chop which will create a new .simpe file
6. Go back to SimPE, right click on the original GMDC mesh, and select Replace and open the file you exported in Step #5
7. Save
8. Inspect your changes; lather; rinse; repeat as necessary

Wow, that looks great!  

Now for the whole enchilada:  Is it theoretically possible to do that as a default mesh instead of doing every single piece of clothing?  ie... using kathy's default meshes?

Well, if you're asking me if you can share a mesh and use it for multiple pieces of clothing - yes, you can.  But you should understand that there are different clothing styles that have completely different geometry.  A sundress and a pant suit have very little geometric commonality whatsoever, so you would need to make edits to both separately.  However, once you did this, you could re-use that sundress mesh to make a dozen different sun-dress styles by altering the textures, alpha, and normal maps.  You can create some very different looks just through texture alone.  With normal maps you can "fake" geometry.  For instance, if you look at the sweat pants, you'll notice that the bow string is textured - not modelled...there's no geometry there - it's just a trick of light and shadow.  The wrinkles and pleats in the above dress are also "fakery".

Sadly, there is no one mesh you can change that will work for everything.  When you change a sims clothing, while the textures are overlaid on top of one another, you are replacing the entire geometry of the body.  Just gotta buckle down, and get your hands grubby :)

J

Thanks jase.  It definitely sounds doable.  Hardwork (given the number of skins I have), but doable.  

So now my question is, where can I get Milkshape and Wes_H's plugin?

Also, maybe you could make those instructions sticky for future reference.


Kathy, would you be willing to do the defaults for this? You have more experience than I do (since I have none)with these programs, and it'd be great if someone got the ball rolling.  

Unless jase would be gracious enough to take up the task.....

Sorry, my cup already overfloweth as it is :)

I kinda figured your plate was full, but thought I'd throw it out there just in case...

So I know these tools are floating around somewhere, but where can I get them?

Spend some time here:

http://forums.modthesims2.com/forumdisplay.php?f=114

The Body Chop plug-in is here:

http://forums.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=50219

Milkshape can be found here:

http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft

Yes I can work on doing all the individual defaults. Which one of the sizes were you interested in? It will probably take a few days because I have a number of back projects I am trying to finish.

Sizes?  Hmm.. If you're referring to the default meshes, I think I like the 2nd one the best.

Jase, I got all the way to step 4 and I'm stumped.  I'm including an attachment because I'm not sure exactly how to lower the vertices and move the neck back.

First things first...get rid of those ridiculous blue lines so you can see what you're doing :)  File | Preferences | Misc and set Joint Size to something MUCH smaller - like 0.005 (you can tailor to personal preference).  Then on the tool palette, select the Groups tab.  Hide all groups except "body".  Then go to the Joints tab.  And select the neck joint.  This will auto-select all the neck vertices assigned to that bone.  Then go to the Model tab, enable "Move" mode, then gently click and drag in either of the top 2 projection views to lower the verts.  You can also use the arrow keys to "nudge" them into position.

J

Doing better.
 
Jase, can you post or pm me a screenshot of your example mesh in this thread?  I'm having some trouble with the neck vertices.  I have them lowered down really far, but it doesn't seem to be resolving the issue.  

I'll attach a couple of examples.

Okay, come to find out there were two meshes in that file and I hadn't done anything to the other one.  After re-sizing it, it did make a difference.  It didn't fix the problem, but it did make it less obvious.

Judging from the fit of the neck (in the first set of pics), I would say that your modified mesh isn't even loaded - or you haven't imported your changes properly.  The screenshots you have provided look exactly like the unmodified adult mesh.

One way you can verify if your mesh edits are taking is to grab one of the neck vertices and do something ridiculous with it (create a giant spike).  If it shows up in the SimPE preview window and Body Shop you know you are loading your exported mesh correctly.  If not, you need to revisit the above steps and make sure you're re-importing the modified file you exported from Milkshape.  Also, did you remember to scale your model by 0.94 before adjusting the verticies?

Here's a screen shot of the earlier formal I posted:

OK, well based on your new photo, I'd say you're loading the right mesh now, but the verts still need to come down.  Keep lowering them until you have a gap between the head and the neck, then nudge them up to close the seam.  Then you can tweak individual vertices to get the perfect fit.

Will do.

I realize this is a pain in the arse, but once you have a set of neck vertices that work, you can just copy your modified vertex positions across to any new meshes you edit.  Getting the initial fit is the painful part.

J

PS. You might want to try a scaling factor < 0.94.  I found 0.90-0.92 works well for me.  The scaling factor used in the game and that used in Milkshape don't appear to be 1:1.

Okay, what on earth am I doing wrong?  I have the neck vertices lowered to the point where they are halfway down the body, but it doesn't seem to make one ounce of difference.

Here's what it looks like in Milkshape:

And it still looks the same in Bodyshop as the screenshots I posted...

Then you are referencing the wrong mesh (or an old version is lying around in your Sims 2 folder somewhere and it is eclipsing your changes).  Make sure your clothing's 3D reference table refers to the Resource Node and Shape defined in your mesh package (if you never changed these, then they are undoubtably pointing at the original Maxis mesh files).  You might benefit from going through WDS Brianna's meshing tutorial over at MTS2.  It's a bit dated and involves the use of some older tools to import and export, but it will give you some idea of how to properly construct a body mesh package.

Sounds like a plan.  I'll spend some time checking it out.  I thought I followed your instructions pretty closely, but it's very obvious that something isn't working right.  I do appreciate all the help and advice you've given so far.