Insimenator.org

Quoted from a certain other place...

Paysites have thier place in the community right now - they have done for years.

The last little droplets of respect I had for the author of this particular piece of nonsense have finally evaporated. In no other moddable gaming community that I am aware of is content available on a 'pay-to-download' basis (although a certain Morrowind site has recently introduced a 'beg-to-run-it' ideaology, which kind of makes me want to find a bucket).

People should run hosting sites because they enjoy it, not to make money off the back of it. I'm disgusted that EA/Maxis continue to allow this practice. Any other decent community would have shot sites such as TSR down in flames long ago.

Regards,
Pauly
Flying the Flag for Free Content

Tell you what... if someone came to my free hosting site and forums and started advertising pay content, their feet wouldn't touch the ground after I hit the 'IP Ban' button  :lol:

Regards,
Pauly
Keeping It Free

*grin* I have to make my hubby read this. I was asked to join two friends opening their own paysites...I turned them down, and he was very angry. I like that anybody and everybody who wants it can download my stuff....

Honey...I know all about Po *laugh* Hubby works and I'm a stay at home mom with four kids.....I still won't do it no matter how much he thinks we need the money. I went to school for cosmetology, and I could easily get a job doing that. He wants me home. This is one argument I'm going to win...he can't make me do it.

What makes me laugh is sites like TSR claiming that the only reason they charge is to pay for bandwidth. What a load of utter bs. They make shedloads of cash off the back of unsuspecting mugs^H^H^H^Hcustomers which should more than pay the bandwidth costs, unless they're shifting something along the lines of 20Tb a month, which is a helluva lot of shifting...

TSR even deign to pay certain 'featured artists' retainers, which galls me even more. How mercenary can some people be, when they're prostituting their hobby for a quick buck? Do it for the love of the game, or get the hell out of the business. You think I'm making any money out of hosting mods? Damn, the ad revenue doesn't even come close...

It makes my blood boil, I tell ya  :P

Regards,
Pauly
:spanish:

Oh lordy

Paysites have thier place in the community right now - they have done for years.

I don't know what to say to that, makes me want to get a red pen.

What is scary is who said it. Let's just say the administrator of a certain site, as a closing comment before locking a thread...

Regards,
Pauly
Ranting Away

I personaly am not interested in paysites
i dont download from them and dont care to really join them
although i did go to tsr a couple of times to teach a few people
the correct information on creating foods
but thats it and i have not really been back

As for creating mesh's even i jumped on the bandwagon to make new foods
and although they are second rate to me i am at least trying
and didnt go cheating by downloading others work to refurbish it on mts2
although my work isnt the greatest i will get better
and as i get better ill feel better with my work ..

i dont mind new people learning to mesh as long as they dont steal others work to do it.

i can say i have looked at alot of mesh's
especialy a really nice food site full of mesh's but that was just to get an idea of how they look in the finished mesh product just to have a clue of what to do
but trust me i am not stealing anyones work nor do i copy the foods from any other site i have just looked for shape values
besides the food items are anywhere from $50.00 to $600.00 dollars
and even if i could steal them i would rather make them from scratch
and learn what i am doing even if it is second rate,
i will learn and get better with time and as i do i am sure people will come to like them better

i just dont like seeing people learn from me on what to do
then go to a paysite with it

exnem has one and has released many of his creations to the free world but has now taken his work completely to pay and i am not sure that was cool at all.

i would also love to have a site up one day with all my creations on it but i would not make it pay.. i dont mind a site who has a donation status but pay does sicken me!

yes i totaly agree and you can tell in my creations that they are all made from scratch as they are not really that good but i at least have an imagination and am trying to learn lol

As for Exnem i am right along side you with that one ..
i at first displayed disgust about the communities actions then sat back and thought hmm
bring out a few new items then go back to your own paysite and let them all pay for what i provided for free
i mean cmon i didnt crack the code but i did go into alot of work to make each food item work with permission from exor674
and i did it all for free even was willing to teach tons of people how to do it
then they run off to paysites :?  and although i cannot control them
i dont think it is right to take all of Exor's or my work and make others pay for what we did ..  :?
at one point i was so irritated that i cloned every single one of exnems pies and thought hmm it was my hard work that made it possible
i should release them but then thats wrong as well
so i didnt because i dont want to be like what i despise in this community
besides it was more exors hard work that made it possible
for me to take the next step ..
eh i am just pissed in one way and confused in another about it all

EDIT - oh and about the poly count i am not sure how to do it in the food items so if you know maybe you can give me a slight explanation as i think the foods are a bit different to most items but i cannot be sure?
that and i am not sure how to do it anyways?

Now that gives me an idea... perhaps I should approach all those creators of naff mods, such as 'another generic house mod that took me 2 minutes', and offer to host them if they pay me...  :twisted:

Of course, I'd still let people download it for free...

Regards,
Pauly
Scheming and Twisted Admin-Thingy of Thingies

Well I've said this before and been roundly flamed for it, but as long as pay sites do not gain a right to stop other creators offering the same things free then they're pretty harmless and not worth a load of bad feeling over.   As long as loads of great free stuff is always available, the pay sites just add to the diversity of choice.

I don't take any notice of the twaddle about them needing the money for the bandwidth - no one told them they had to hire humungous great servers with humungous numbers of "staff" filling them up.   If the bandwidth at my site got to the point where I couldn't pay for it with more or less the cost of a couple of drinks a month, I'd take some of the files off or make less stuff.   I wouldn't want the hassle of collecting donations or subscriptions.

Well, I don't really like people mirroring my stuff because that way people end up getting out of date versions, no instructions and no support.  I don't mind so much when it's something I know is really simple and I am not going to touch again.   But if someone decides they're going to offer one of my hacks on their site anyway, then I'd prefer it if they changed its name and said it was their work, then people won't come moaning to me about it if they can't get it to work  :-D

Usualy the foods are kind of high anyways but he is not just changing
the food but also the way the whole file looks

it's ok to change the main course then just paint whatever else but the problem i think his files have is he is changing not just the main course but every little mesh in it and yeah the last one with the fish was kind of well you said it best ..
 
i will say at least he gave some stuff away but none of the foods to me should be pay considering at the moment the only thing that would work would have to be the salad if i had not have seriously banged my head trying to get them all to work only for other people to learn it and reap a dollar off of my headaches

now dont get me wrong i would love to see at least a few other sites offering food items just as long as they stay free :D

more than likely you would have to go back and re-subscribe  :evil:
like i said to me thats just wrong they should all stay free
if and when changes are made people should be able get the fix without anyone telling them to pay for it
if that happens i am gonna bitch my head off considering they were meant to be free anyways

i bet if i asked for the files he has he would say i need to pay for them :evil:

The question I have is that someone was doing some figuring,and they came up with,Tsr is making about 4700 a month off of people,and what I really want to know is what are they doing with the money?Please don't jump on me but I have been a subscriber for about 6 months,to defend myself it wasn't until the sim2 that I found out about custom content and the first place I ever found was tsr,I just want to know where my hard earned money is going.I don't like the way they run things over there it has become a political war zone and I think the sims is about fun not a powerfest.

I wasn't aware TSR had good content. I thought they had nothing but crap. And I despise paysites. But I must agree, paysites do have their place in the community, as long as that place is on fire. Nice to see you have your own site.

They do a lot of double talk over there and it is too the point that a lot of people are ready to walk,this month is my last month,because quite honestly I don't need them,I think what they did with the free sets was bullshit,they knew exactly what they were doing,there wasn't any mistake nor error on their part it was a a gimmick to solicit new victims to there site,and noone can tell me different.These poeple aren't going to give all for nothing those sets are there friggin money makers and they aren't just going to give them for free without something in return.Alot of people enjoyed getting the sets for free and then Steve and Tom just snatched away as quick as they gave it to them.I am sorry for this rant but it has been building for a long time now.Btw great forum now I have some place to go where I can express my indignation when I want.

Thank you Motoki,and I will be here a lot more often this forum is great.Tsr is over,which will make my husband extremely happy! :D

back in January, just before I started playing TS2, a friend of mine (who has been hooked on the sims for years) mentioned pay-sites...I laughed, I thought she was kidding!  I was like "you mean people actually pay for custom content for a game?"

I still can hardly believe it, hell the last community I was in, dealt with bigger files and all the fan sites are free!  granted most of the people in that community are kids but still... (Petz community, virtual cats and dogs for your computers, great programs and you can get thousands of free hacked breedfiles, including a bunch I did)

It just dosen't make sense to me to pay for custom content for a game...hell I'm poor (more like po) and it'd be nice to get paid for doing something thats so much fun to do but I still wouldn't open a damn pay-site!

Not entirely true. One of the bigger 'new' MW hosting sites recently threw out the begging bowl, after dying in controversial circumstances and having everyone and their next door neighbour crying 'No! Where do we put our mods now?'

The whole episode made me rant something chronic, as I'd been asking for help just to run the site (hell, I'm out contracting 45 hours a week, spend another 15 hours doing other business activities - plus two new projects on the boil. Morrowind used to take up a good 20 hours of my time testing and reviewing mods alone) as I was about to burn out. For three months, I asked, and it took this other site (and a couple of others) to fall over (for about the third time) before anyone with the skills I asked (not uncommon skills, I might add) to offer help. Of the three who finally did, two have all but vanished.

But back to the point in hand. Some of the mods (such as The Underground by Qarl) are tremendous in their scope and sheer technical brilliance. They make many Sims mods look amateurish and simple by comparison (and I offer no apologies here, even though some of the 'hacks' - I prefer the term 'mods' personally - are great). People such as Aerelorn and Shanjaq have done things everyone said couldn't be done (changing the fundamentals of the combat system, creating writable books and journals, creating a 'multiplayer' variant). Not one of those mod authors gained a single penny from their work. Many would have spent a lot of money on software such as 3DS Max to create such work in the first place.

Like I've said before, and can't emphasise enough - EA/Maxis have set a dangerous precedent by allowing this practice to go on. It should have been stamped out before it ever began. Now the floodgates are open for any old Tom, Dick or Harry to rattle off a pay site in the mould of TSR (hmmm... case in point... isn't that a trademark of Wizards of the Coast, Inc?) and make money of unsuspecting mugs^H^H^H^Hnew users...

Regards,
Pauly
Ranting again :rant:

 

Well, Bethsoft themselves put they kibosh on that... so it never happened and no money changed hands, charity or no charity.

It's almost 4am. I should be in bed...

Let's try to put this in perspective.  Website owners have a limited number of options;
(a)  Run the site with own money no matter how much extra money it costs if bandwidth is continuely overused.
(b)  Run the site until it costs even more than expected then shut it down.
(c)  Keep it half free, half donation to pay for the free half.
(d)  Make it all pay.
(e)  Have it all pay except for a few free sets like it's charity.
(f)  Put site on a lame free site and harass your viewers with pop-ups.
(g)  Find someone to host you for free.
(h)  Have everything free and pay yourself BUT put up donation link and hope someone will click it.

The best option I've seen is C.. XM, Peggy, and other of my favorite artists follow this.  Quality is basically the same for free and donation.

The rest all have a major flaw and usually kills the site eventually.

For all the talk though about copyright by pay sites as I understand it Maxis can take away their intellectual copyright at any time.  There are many companies that declare war on anyone who tries to mod their game(s).  I'm thinking some sims fan creators have forgotten how lucky they have it currently.

You missed an option, Angelica.  Decide on a hosting service and bandwidth you can afford, keep an eye on the bandwidth, and if it looks like going over the limit, take some of the files down for a little while or place them elsewhere.  In the past I have used my Yahoo group for files that I suspected might produce a sudden surge, as Yahoo does the rationing for you.

I admit it's tough to keep bandwidth down if you're sharing whole Sims, lots or new meshes though.   If I was making them I might opt to be selfish with my space and upload those to MTS2 or TSR or The Exchange :D

Another good option would be to use a filesharing program to spread your files, especially if you can be certain at least a few friends will keep your files shared. Then you can use a forum, yahoo group or plain email for support.

It's really an excellent option, I think, but I haven't seen anyone doing it.

On Neighbourhood99 they have a forum dedicated to filesharing, so creators register their willingness to have their files distributed that way, and users use that forum to ask when they want someone to send them a file.  It's called POBS (Preservation of Bandwidth Society)

Inge it is nice to see all the sites that do participate in the file sharing network. It would be nice to see more sites impliment this as well but kudos to the ones that do.

I fully agree. That place is the newbie corner, for stupid people who don't know what a zipfile is.

For every pay site I can usually find ten free sites which offer much better content.[/i]

Inge,
I've never heard of that. Sounds cool! It seems to me that peer-to-peer would be a very cost-effective way to distribute content. you could just have a site with your images/descriptions and links to your content on a p2p network.

This thread began with "specific site" bashing.  We have added a new rule concerning site bashing.  We like this topic (we advocate free content) and debating the pros' and cons' of different methods of site maintenance and content distribution is encouraged by us since new ideas can be born out of such discussion.  From here on, we ask members not to bash a specific sites policies regarding the above mentioned concepts.  

See Site Rules (http://www.insimenator.net/viewtopic.php?t=2&sid=0b045d34b3ced18c83c8f65ca16297c1)

Thanks :)

Let me add on what you are saying baby by saying none of the "present" company has been doing this so please don't feel as though this is directed towards you. We just don't want to fall into the trap of bashing one site or another and having anyone feeling alienated because they belong to said site.

Oh sharing paid content is a definete no no in my book. Just because a site is pay and I do not care for pay sites does not mean I condone anyone stealing their content. Most of the sites I have seen have a strict policy forbidding sharing paid content. Everyone once in awhile you will see someone requesting a pay object but those are mostly overlooked or they are told this object can not be distributed.

Definitely agreed. What I mean specifically is that content creators themselves could start the filesharing process or that they agree to have someone else start it for them. It's something that could also be used as an alternate in the way that Inge described using yahoo groups. You could have the option to download directly or to download through filesharing. If your bandwidth got close to your limit, you could turn off the direct download links, but still have the content available in another way.

Thats a very interesting idea...kinda like have a second computer on you cable/dsl line...someone sends an email requesting a certain package for the game and it would auto-create and email back with that object...Has some great potential!

A lot of yahoo groups and smaller sites say they are file share friendly.  They don't mind you emailing their stuff to others.  They generally just ask that you include the read-me file.  This way people know where it came from and who the creator is and they get the credit they deserve.  I have been getting things this way for several years.  JUst need a big mail box.  Mine is 2 gigs.

Teresa

You're very right Inge, I did forget to put those options in.  I think they are both reasonable.

On problem solving with file sharing, I don't know if others on this board are familiar with BitTorrent.  You can make your larger files like houses into torrent files and allow others to download it from your computer.  Once they have it, they can seed it as well.  The more seeds available the faster it is downloaded.  So there is no actual bandwidth consumed.

http://www.bittorrent.com/

Depending on how many you're hosting, it can slow down your DSL/cable a bit.  However, I don't think the difference is noticeable unless you're having 500mb or more available at a time.

Bittorrent or emule are exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. Sharing by email is quite slow since you have to upload the full file to each person who requests it and you have to personally respond to each request. Also a lot of us have maximum attachment sizes so that we couldn't recieve something like a Lot or a Sim with a custom skin. Torrents or other p2p networks split up the bandwidth between everyone involved.

A lot of the P2P networks I've seen are too infected with viruses and adware.  The source of content is generally unknown.  The main distributor changes by whoever is on at the time that has a full version.  Torrents are created by their maker and you find them on their website or a collective of already approved torrents.

They come from a site knowing what you are downloading.  P2P programs do not have previews.

Emule is also good in that the originator can share a file and give a direct link to the download so that the source is known and confirmed.

Torrents have the advantage of generally being faster. It makes them an excellent way to make an initial distribution. However torrents tend to die fast. I don't really understand why, but I know the way torrent clients work practically encourages you to stop sharing a file once you're done downloading because it's just in your way.

Emule is slower, but has the advantage of the shared files still being available a year later. Only the downloaded files themselves need to be kept in order to keep sharing, not an extra file like with torrents. The originator may not be able to keep sharing for one reason or another, yet the full file remains active on the nework and is still the same file that the originator gave with their confirmed link. If the file is changed, their link will never lead to the changed file.

Something like kazaa is completely useless for something like this because of viruses and because of the problem with source confirmation.

With yahoo's new 1gb of storage...you can keep your files already in an email for faster sending...not sure you can script yahoo to auto send a requested email though...that would be a hassle to hand enter even 50 different email addys for different files...

I dont' trust kazaa and some of those...and the most annoying thing about kazaa and the others is how the people grab what is available, but then they either don't share, or they have the outgoing throttled so bad you might as well take a trip around the world...and then the trojans and viruses that come with them...

Haven't really seen torrent or the other.

The problem with file sharing such as eMule or Bittorrent is that 1. the person needs to have the software and 2. they are impatient.

It's one thing in a community of geeks (As we have on relicnews.com, another site I admin at), but when the majority of the community are people who *haven't* touched a p2p program in the past, you run into problems.

*grin* people like me who have no idea what that is... :D

A p2p network is a filesharing community. For example Kazaa has movies, music, software, anything and everything you can think of. The problem is more times than not these files were never intended to be shared. They are pirated. Many people use these networks to try to avoid buying whatever software or music etc that they need. You also run into getting bad downloads ie incomplete files, choppy music, virus and trojans, just to name a few examples. Software is required to transfer these files and many times this software is infected by spyware/adware. With anything they have their pros and cons.

Good point Delphy!!  If they can't figure out winrar...*laugh*  They are not going to figure out that at all!

Thanks Kathy...that probably explains why my son has gone through three computers....

Rgiles, that is true about Torrents dying out.  Maybe a combination of Torrents and Emule?  Torrent available for first month it's new then switch to Emule.

Yes, a part of the Sims 2 community has a difficulty even grasping what a RAR is.  Typically they are the ones unwilling to help themselves and I wonder how much coddling we should do.  Just because they whine the loudest doesn't mean we should talk down to everyone else.  

With everything new, there is some adapting involved.  If I could encourage some makers to try using torrents then I would set up a site fully explaining what torrents are/what they do/etc.

Basically, it's impossible to "dummy proof" anything so I wouldn't let it discourage you from trying something new.

Also Delphy-
1. the person needs to have the software
BitTorrent is like less than a MB to download.  The average Sims 2 download is more than that.

2. they are impatient.
Lately even downloading the "typical" way is slow on your site.  Sometimes the downloads aren't even available at all.  People are impatient no matter what.

Very true. I'm sure that a lot of people don't have these programs installed and don't know the first thing about them. Some people can't even figure out how to download the files from MTS2. :)

lmao Danny funny you mentioned that. http://67.166.74.114/help.txt   That was given earlier in chat and was frankly amusing as sin. Someone else also said how do they get objects in their game. They were advised they had to download them. They go that sucks I thought you could just use move objects on to get them in the game.  :D

lmao i just read the whole script and was laughing all the way through it :lol:

Ok, we can all agree that some people are ignorant.  Last time I knew though, creators didn't share their work to just those people!  I'm trying to problem solve.  It's getting frustrating with this pointless agreeing on stupid people.  :/  

I guess you don't see enough creators having to shut down their site unnecessarily.  More creators are being inticed by a certain paysite for petty money and not having to deal with their overloaded bandwidth.  

They *shouldn't* have to do that.  I want to keep them and their content around and give them alternatives to what is already there.

kathy, I've seen that transcript before. lmao! That's definitely a keeper.

angelica,

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. It's not possible to make content available to the lowest common denominator because that is just so low that you get people who don't know how to download anything at all.

It's true that some methods of sharing content are inaccessible to some people. Pay sites are inaccessible to many as well, because people can't afford it, aren't allowed to pay for it, or simply refuse to spend their money that way.

If people want content, they have to be willing to give something. The something may be following some simple instructions and using a new program. I'm less willing every day to help people who demand something for nothing, meaning they aren't willing to use one drop of energy to try to do something for themselves. I can't really feel bad if I'm giving something away for free and somebody can't get it because they think I should hand-deliver it to their doorstep and install it for them too.

RG

(http://s95147669.onlinehome.us/beosboxboy/images/stupida-mouse.jpg)

'nuff said

lmao I think we should all pitch in and buy some mice

That is a classic, very amusing.  Delphy, I so admire your patience.   :banghead:

lmao I give Delphy alot of credit...I would have snapped on that person after a couple minutes.

It must be so frustrating trying to help people and they just don’t seem to want to help themselves.  They are given clear and concise instructions and still have major difficulties.  Big respect to all you Admins/Moderators.  What a job you do.   :lol:

Shardonnay many times it is children and while they can be irritating it is sort of understandable. What blows my mind are the adults. Especially when they get all pissy because they can't follow a simple instruction. Granted we have all been there sometime or another but it seems to me if they are able to sign online they should be able to download a file. They may still need help with the placement of that file and thats fine. But not being able to download? Maybe I have owned a pc too long lol

I completely agree with you Kathy.  I can understand that the kids may need a little extra help and like you say we have all been there at some point.  But the adults well that’s something else.

I lurk at quite a few sites (professional lurker and download junkie) and have noticed recently that some people just seem to not be able to follow the advice they have been given, and then become quite rude towards the person who was trying to assist them.   I guess that’s one of the reasons I generally just lurk.  :wink:

See I get that alot. I will give explicit directions on what to do and they get all nasty with me. After I have spent my time finding all the information for them do I get any thanks? No. I get a slap in the face. That's why half the time I don't even bother.

The people who drive me crazy are the ones who insist that their hand be held through everything. Pointing them to the information should be enough, if instructions have already been written up with pictures and everything. Then it's just too much.

Maybe we are expecting too much by requiring them to read.

As I said Kathy, Big respect to you all  :goodjob: .  I couldn’t do it myself, all the animosity and ungratefulness just bugs the hell out of me!!  :cry:

BTW great forum guys.  This is the most posts i've made anywhere.

aaww Shardonnay thanks. It is a work in progress. But I would like everyone to tell Delphy thankyou as well. I pester him when I can't figure something out lmao. Yes I don't know everything and I will flat out admit that. :D

My dog knows everything, but he won't tell me.

lmao Danny where did that come from?

Thank you too Delphy  :P

It's... Tuesday. :) And it's entirely possible that I haven't had enough coffee.

Silly wabbit lol Don't feel bad I haven't had enough Diet Coke or cigarettes yet but I intend to make up for that shortly.

Lmao i sometimes wonder if i might be a little crazy
for even playing the game let alone learning how to mod it in any way

then i look at RGiles, Delphy, Numenor & all the rest helping other people and i think wow and i felt a little crazy haha they must all be insane
or just a little touched to have to deal with all of us :lol:

I am insane.

My hair stands up on end becuase of all the lunacy I have to deal with day in day out :D

Either that or I'm using the wrong shampoo... hrm....

how cool is this? lol we got delphy and rgiles here too

errr kathy you led us to believe you DID know everything :P rofl *hides so i don't get locked in basement with eric  he don't like to share the space there lol

i always knew i was crazy otherwise i wouldn't work where i work for so long for so little i just have to keep proving it

some say video games are to blame i say it was something else lol i was a vidiot b4 they had a term for it

anyho thank kathy,eric,delphy and anyone else i don't know about for pulling this forum together

i like the add for this site on the home page of mts2:D is very good delphy likes insim as much as the rest of us lol

lmao Delphy don't mention hair around Eric......

Delphy has sexy hair...don't listen to him...I've seen pics *grin*

then that means he lied about the shampoo and he is insane :lol:

I can confirm that he is insane, if confirmation is needed. It's not that he's using the wrong shampoo. It's that you're not supposed to drink it.

You mean I have to put that stuff on my head?  But it tastes so good....

You must be using a brand with fruit extracts....switch to something with a  chemical base and you won't be tempted to drink it.  :D

Delphy just don't drink the conditioner. It leaves a funky aftertaste for days.

Yes, but it does leave the inside of your throat silky smooth...things slide right down  :D

LMAO Katt! I'm not going anywhere NEAR that one! :D

Oh my!  Let's say on one hand...I agree with you RG...on the other though....[censored]

oh my if you are drinking the shampoo i can imagine

                    (but i wont)

 what you are doing with the aftershave :lol:

well the booty has like all pay site free content

Moderation Nortice: thread over-looked when the policy changed regarding paysite debates. thread locked

mikesimslover, you didn't provide a direct link, but you still provided the address to the booty site...which is a no no here because of the huge controversy it's caused; hence, my edit to your post.