Insimenator.org

I don't know about YOU but I am sick and tired of ye olde "dragging mouse through molasses" syndrome.  You know what I mean.  One of the quickest fixes is going through all your CC and deleting!  But, before you part with your faves - why not get rid of the items that have such insanely high polys it is pointless to keep?  I mean, come on Reflex Sims new Classic Outdoor Set uses 20,000 some polys for a CHAIR - the equivalent of a CAR.  As you can see from the list, there are many other creators out there guilty of the same.  Keep in mind that it IS worse for items that are used in multiples (like chairs) than items used once ((like a vase).  
If this is in the wrong spot, sorry, I just couldn't decide where to throw it!  

http://www.simscave.com/ferris/index.php?topic=1181.0
by MCP from simscave  This new link is actually in a place where everyone can read it.  Oops.  Will update as info becomes available.

Mango Opera set cushions (1 tile) : V 6025 F 10082
Mango Milord set tray (1 tile) : V 15698 F 28804
Solander K-Set01 Messageboard (1 tile) : V 9776 F 12910
ReflexForum AngelamvEliza Clock Window (2 tile) : V 14256 F 16096
Stylist Sims Montreal Plant (1 tile) : V 23258 F 24488
Bella's Birthday Gift to Mira Dining Chair (1 tile) : V 3393 F 5174
Sasilia Mondo Kitchen Counter 1a (1 tile) : V 6326 F 5205
Sasilia Mondo Kitchen Counter 2 (1 tile) : V 6566 F 5325
Sasilia Dining Free Ceiling Lamp (1 tile) : V 4282 F 5484
Sasilia Newport Living Sofa (3 tiles) : V 3783 F 6092
KansasCityRose Pottery Barn Kitchen Counter with Drawers (1 tile) : V 6156 F 5795
KansasCityRose Pottery Barn Bathroom Cabinet (1 tile) : V 1964 F 6454
KansasCityRose Pottery Barn Bathroom Counter 1 (1 tile) : V 4816 F 7148
KansasCityRose Pottery Barn Bathroom Counter 2 (1 tile) : V 5994 F 8412
KansasCityRose Pottery Barn Dining Room Candelier (1 tile) : V 4664 F 6544
Sims Design Ave Arcan Set Wall Candles (1 tile) : V 3851 F 5954
Sims Design Ave Campagne Childs Room Dresser (2 tile) : V 6862 F 6444
Sims Design Ave Campagne Living Room Table Lamp (1 tile) : V 4720 F 7788
Sims Design Ave Campagne Bedroom Dresser (2 tile) : V 6332 F 7944
Wall Sims Angel Bottle of Wine (1 tile) : V 3634 F 6494
SimSecrets Newport Living Candles (1 tile) : V 5500 F 7302
SimSecrets Newport Dining Lighthouse Lamp (1 tile) : V 6013 F 8080
Birgit43 Set Laufen Fountain (1 tile) : V 3733 F 7400
ReflexSims Classic Outdoor Set
                       Chair: V (verticals) 20069, T (faces) 39404
                       Table: V 9926, T 19776
                       Parasol: V 9742, T 19452
UPDATED APRIL 2, 2008 by SHEEHAZ
Sims Design Avenue/Caravan Shop Sims
Campagne Kitchen Set/Cuisine Set Campagne
Set_Campagne_Frances_Chaise_Cuisine(1 tile) : V.5695 F.6706 (Dining Chair)
Set_Campagne_Frances_Frigidaire(1 tile): V.6993 F.6052
Set_Campagne_Frances_Ilot Table(6 tiles): V.17262 F.20370 (Dining table sized kitchen island.)
Set_Campagne_Frances_Lustre(1 tile): V.7522 F.7844 (Light)
Set_Campagne_Frances_MuebleBas01(1 tile): V.26069 F. 21534 (Counter!)
Set_Campagne_Frances_MuebleBas02(1 tile): V.24485 F.20061 (Counter!)
Set_Campagne_Frances_MuebleHautDroite(1 tile): V.8076 F. 7314 (Right portion of the wall cabinet that forms the stove surround.)
Set_Campagne_Frances_MuebleHautGroche(1 tile): V.6511 F. 5739 (Left portion of the wall cabinet that forms the stove surround.)
Set_Campagne_Frances_MuebelHautPortes Tiroirs(1 tile): V.10494 F. 10094 (Wall cabinet with three drawers.)
Misc Files
Cotswold Kitchen Counter(1 tile): V.12741 F.9532
Cotswold Island Counter(1 tile): V.9613 F.7201
B43_bellaforumchair(1 tile): V.5499 F.5068
Barcelona Chair_bySJmCreative office: V.29380 F.25794
Barcelona Ottoman: V.13182 F.11178
Sunnisims_Detours Irish Canopy: V.9211 F.13511

I am going to go ahead and do Vita Sims.  I feel very strongly about this as it is one of those sites I always drooled after before I knew about PMBD and here.  I have gotten this much done so far...I, quackers actually did these!  I am so very proud of myself.
Vita Sims Victorian Dining Room
candle   v +++  f 7241
barstool   v +++  f 4447
BIG Curtain   v +++  f 5912
Buffet   v +++  f 18,959
Dining Chair   v +++  f 5072
End Table  v +++  f 11,323
Fireplace Tool  v +++ f 2686
Lustra   v +++  f 17058
Vase With Flowers  v +++  f 9933
Bar  v +++  f 4235
Bar Stuff   v +++  f 5873
Chair v +++  f 8885
Dining Table  (2 Tiles) v +++  f 22,540    
Fireplace   v +++  f 26,458
Fireplace Tool  v +++  f 6292
SideBoard   v 3402  f 1789

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/_domino_sims/vic_din1moreVitaSimsCrappola.gif)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/_domino_sims/vic_diningVitaSimsCrap.gif)

Vita Sims Victorian Billiard Room

Bar   v 3068  f 3008
Barstool  v 3155  f 2838
Billiard Stuff  v 1570  f 1519
Chair  v +++   f 7520
Curtains  v +++   f 2764
Floor Lamp  v 3723   f 2418
Moose  v +++  f 3697
Pool Table  v +++  f 4662
Wall decor  v       f 4953
Bar Cab Glass  v +++  f 6028
Big Lamp  v 2903   f 2823
Wine Shelf  v 2231  f 2000
Card Chair  v +++  f 6163
Coffee Table  v +++  f 4125
LoveSeat (2 Tiles) v +++  f 8050
Bar Cabinet v +++  f 6026
Lamp  v 1419  f 1365

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/_domino_sims/BilliardRoom2.gif)
(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/_domino_sims/BilliardRoom.gif)

OK I saw this on BinesSimsRevue and couldn't resist seeing if the whole to-do about her Classic Outdoor Set made her change her ways...

AngelamvEliza Reflex Sims Forum Modern Dining Set

Floor Lamp  v 1318  f 1532
Sidetable  v +++  f 14764
Wine Glasses  v +++  f 6136
Chair  v 2023  f 3240
Table  v +++  f 3176

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg299/_domino_sims/ModernDiningbyAngelamvEliza.jpg)

apparently not...unfortunately.



learn about polys here http://www.modthesims2.com/wiki.php?title=Game_Help:Poly_Counts


The thread listing has now gotten quite large and I would hate to take up the whole forum space here with it SO I will still tell you guys when it has been updated but I don't think I will post any more of it here.  It is on to page two over there and, well, that is a heck of a lot!  So, head on over to http://www.simscave.com/ferris/index.php?topic=1181.0  if you want to peruse the updated listing.  It is in an area where everyone can see it (Sims 2 Chit Chat).

Jonesi of Reflex Sims Forum has actually updated her September Sofa Set in response to this list!  This is just the kind of reaction we are hoping for!  
September Sofa Set
picture - 207
chair - was 6144 - now 2464
table - was 1752 - now 984
sofa - was 10082 - 4092
curtain- 650
fireplace - 681
cushion - was 988 - now 224

Vita Sims has some beautiful stuff, but her stuff has also always been extremely high in poly counts. Only set I still have I think from what you posted is the campagne set. I'm gonna go check out the Poly count on it, because I use the whole set. Although, I've never had it slow down my game.

I'm getting a different reading in SimsPE on some of these. Still high, but for instance:
Set_Campagne_Frances_MuebelHautPortes Tiroirs(1 tile): V.10494 F. 10094 (Wall cabinet with three drawers.)

I get F. 3884 V. 4474(I haven't used any type of compression thing on them)But that's a huge difference.

On  Set_Campagne_Frances_Ilot Table(6 tiles): V.17262 F.20370 (Dining table sized kitchen island.)

I got the same reading. So about 3395 Poly's per tile.

Set_Campagne_Frances_MuebleBas01(1 tile): V.26069 F. 21534 (Counter!)

I got F. 3008 V. 2231 That is a big/big difference!! I don't know where some of these numbers are coming from. I'm attaching my Screenshots.

__________________________

From MTS2
5) FACECOUNT = POLYCOUNT

Most body meshes are in the 2000-3500 range on poly count.
Extra details or alpha additions tend to make the count a bit higher.
Hair is also usually in about that same range.

For objects - the rule of thumb is to aim for 800 poly or less per tile that the object takes up. But again - that can vary depending on the detail of the object. Comparing to several similar Maxis meshes is another way to see if your counts seem in line with 'normal'.

What is too high?

Generally if you're not within the range of similar meshes made by Maxis - then you should investigate ways to reduce the count. If your poly count is twice Maxis amounts - that is high, but perhaps justifiable, if the item has a lot of curves or extra details. Higher than that it should be something super-special.

You're taking the time to make a mesh; take time to know what is a 'normal' poly count and to use just enough mesh detail to get the effect you want and create more detail using your textures. The better your textures, the better the overall impression your mesh will make.

I did not do the campagne set myself.  I only did Vita and ReflexSims Forum set.  Feel free to venture over to Sims Cave (follow link in first thread) and talk to the person who actually did that particular posting to see what's what.  For those sets, I am only the humble messenger.  I'll take a look myself and ask later when I am able to head over there...getting ready to let someone ride his trike around the block in a sec.

It looks like from my quick look, that the counter numbers are caused by the fact that there are multiple versions of the counter in one package.  The numbers seem to be derived from adding all the versions.  If I do that I get the same numbers that are listed.  The counts are too high for counters but not as high as that.  Actually that whole set is high which is a shame, because I love it, but even the things that are essentially boxes are higher than they should be.

This is an interesting thread (and VERY helpful to those with slower computers). This is also a great help to those who aren't savvy with polycounts and what to look for.

While I appreciate your listing the high polycount (without any negative remarks towards the creators) I think it would be a HUGE help if someone could break it down a little simpler. For instance,

Maxi chair Plolycount: XXXXX

This way people will understand what a high polycount means in terms of what it should be. I wish I could do it but I am one of those people still trying to grasp what to look for.

Thank you for this post.

All those poly counts are extremely high, even the one's I looked at. 3000 poly's for a one tile object....way too much. I wouldn't have bothered to look at all, so thank you Quackers for pointing this out. I expect higher numbers for hair and clothing. Furniture is mostly in the textures, so I don't see a reason for these to be that high. I always thought I was being generous with 2000 polys per tile. Some of these numbers are wild 20000?? I have yet to see any piece of furniture for the sims that warranted a poly count of 20000. It's not a vechicle. I don't have any of the other sets so that's the only one I could even check, and I paid for that thing too.

I need to go through this stuff I've been checking and all the poly counts I am getting from every piece of furniture I have and every single website including MTS2, here etc...all have poly counts like the ones in the first post. It's not like I'm getting one high 4 low.  Only one website at all has been within reason on most their stuff and some of their newer stuff is really high 4EFS.

Oh and J00wish, I've been checking Maxi's stuff I havent found anything other then the smaller painting that stay in what they say it should be. Oh and a few dining chairs/smaller items. Most their stuff is coming up about 1000 to 1200 on the larger things. So still 100 percent better than what were seeing in these numbers. What a mess. lol Now that I'm going through the later EPs/SPs I'm finding plenty like the one attached from Maxis, I don't even know what the heck this is! Don't look at the poly count on the new car...Ok have to show this EA's Hawker Car. F.17161 V. 22706

WOW I need to start deleting! No wonder my sims game takes an hour to load!

Thank you so much for this very helpful thread!

While this is admittedly interesting and a great asset to those having problems, I would suggest getting a decent computer for any game playing. TS2 isn't even close to being a demanding game graphically compared to say GTR2, HalfLife2, Doom3, Quake4, or any of dozens of other games. I have tons of CC and play with absolutely everything maxed with nary a stutter. Judging by reading through various threads here I'd say that more than a few are trying to play on outdated PC's (or worse yet, lappys) with insufficient RAM and nothing more than an onboard graphic chip, then complain that their game's a stuttering mess because of someone's new hair mesh... :shh:

OK - time for a reality check on poly-counts.  for the most part - and this is just a quick and dirty rule of thumb so don't go ballistic if it doesn't work on your particular video card/driver/system - the poly-count thing is a very indeterminate thing. you can have a house with only Maxis made objects and those are all in the theorised "sweet spot" for poly-count and it drop your game to a crawl because you have a bajillion plants - or you can have a house piled high with high-poly horrors and not a single plant and never see so much as a hiccough in performance.  More goes into this equation than poly-count.

The game gets increasingly demanding on un-seen stuff as you add each expansion pack.  Starting with just the base game the growth cycle for plants, wants, needs, mirrors, water, shadows, path-finding AI, and autonomous actions like going stupid whenever a Sim sees a romance Sim adds one layer of un-seen CPU-cycle-sucking horror; then University adds additional autonomous actions like the infamous kick-baggy right on top of the portal or in any traffic pattern choke point behaviour, the start playing the hand-held game every time the command queue is empty,  and exacerbated toddler-crawl-100-feet-to-play-in-the-toilet behaviours for yet more CPU-cycle-sucking horror; then Nightlife adds all those turn-ons, turn-offs, and simpering autonomous call me actions for more CPU-cycle-sucking horror; then OFB adds all of the merchantilist crap for more CPU-cycle-sucking horror; then pets with all their urges and behaviours are added by Pets EP for more CPU-cycle-sucking horror; then Seasons with its lighting changes and weather adds major amounts CPU-cycle-sucking horror; then BV with its beaches and stupid autonomous actions, a bajillion tourists and NPCs crawling on every lot for even more CPU-cycle-sucking horror, and finally Free Time with all its new overhead adds even more CPU-cycle-sucking horror.

In this situation, the game and all EPs (no stuff packs) WITHOUT any custom content is about 8.90 GB (9,561,222,903 bytes) on the hard drive before you play the first minute -- I don't have Pets EP, so this is probably about 1.5 GB short of the full load.  As you play all those memories and gossipping and wardrobe additions and job changes begin to pile another layer of CPU-cycle-sucking horror on the game that only gets bigger the longer you play.

Now start adding mods, hacks, and other custom content and it can easily reach greater than 20 GB of data being loaded before you really get into play.

Even if you play only the smaller lots 3x3 and less, 1 neighbourhood grid equals 100 play mode grids.  each grid, whether piled up with clutter or without anything on it, requires 1 MB of video memory just to paint the ground.  So in truth a 3x3 lot is going to need 900 MB of video RAM to operate "seamlessly" -- sure adding high-poly count items doesn't make things better, but they are not going to make it appreciably worse if you show some reasonable restraint in furnishing your lots.

I am not saying high poly-count makes no impact on crappy systems, but a main-stream system isn't going to meltdown because you have high-poly custom content, and a high-end system shouldn't be affected adversely.

Some objects are higher poly than others, true enough, but there is more to consider here than poly-count, and that other stuff is what's being over-looked.  Even a low poly item can be a horror on a video card's performance if it adds reflection surfaces - a rotating disco mirror ball would likely seize up even a great system since each mirror surface would act as an additional camera in the game multiplying the total video ram demand for the lot by the number of mirror faces on the disco mirror ball.  Or pile a lot full of full length wall mirrors and those neato keen reflective floors and see how great the game performs during a 10 Sim smustle session and each of those reflection surfaces and tiles has at most a poly-count of 2.

Poly-count is important -- but it isn't all that important.

LOL! Well put Yakov, and very informative as well. Hell, I'm still using BlooM's original "Sexy Feet" on some of my Sims in-game and they're 10,000 poly's all on their own ~ multiply that[/I] by your typical pool party... ;)

This is a very good point.  I actually went on a poly count craze about a year ago and purged.  Now I take a more balanced approach, play on smaller lots, or have  few mirrors if I want gardens or ponds or lots of fences, etc.  Essentially I look at the item and decide if the poly count or extra animation or reflection is worth it, so some higher poly items have crept back in.  I'm harshest for looking at polys on things like dining chairs that I will have multiples of on a lot or clutter for the same reason.

After looking at the poly's on things last night I'm not purging anything. I use reflective floors all over my house, and every house has a pond, etc...I fill all my rooms and the outsides of my homes with plants and trees. The counts in the first post when you do averages for all the CC you've downloaded are about average. A lot of hair poly's begin between 6 to 8000. So I'm not going to worry about it. I have 1 gig video card ATI up from 512. Plus I have 8 gigs of ram, 2.6Ghz.

But, I still think this thread is good for people that have older PC's and can't handle the high poly counts. I play Oblivion on my PC with no problems at all and most the poly counts for it begin at like 20000. Now my son who has an older PC can't play Oblivion. While it's nice and I say this with no malice...to advise people to get a new PC or upgrade their older ones. That's not a reality for a lot of people. They have families to support, or they're teens that depend on their parents who have families to support. Not everyone has high paying jobs. Food, utilities, and health care are a little bit more important to them; then playing a game with no problems. My husband and I support two families. Ourselves, my son and his family since he lost his job. But, I would never expect everyone else to do the same. Nor would I just assume they could. We're extremely blessed there. Both of us have college degree's. My husband has an advanced degree. He's a scientist. If he were still a college professor no way could we have afforded it. Plus, we own part of a business which is why I no longer work and am able to stay at home and take care of my grandbabies. Plus too, my daughter and I are wanting to start another business. I plopped down 1,500 for my new video card, that's more than most newer PC's. But, not everyone can afford to do that. Many players have to play with the bare minimum requirements just to run the game, and that's just a reality.

I'm surprised my game even runs. And it runs pretty fast too considering all of the stuff I have downloaded and all of the eps I have. It takes like forty minutes to LOAD the game but after that everything's tolerable. And this is what I play on:

(http://reviews.cnet.com/sc/31383674-2-300-overview-1.gif)

It has a 7.2 inch LCD, Intel Pentium M Processor 753 (Centrino), 512 MB RAM, 60 GB Hard Drive. I'm not joking. This computer is magical.

Look at a vid of a woman holding it, it's a baby:
http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/toshiba-libretto-u100/4505-3121_7-31341786.html

I <3 him and I'll NEVER let him go.
I have really thin, long fingers so the 'board is easy to type on for me, but sometimes I plug him into a larger moniter and keyboard, but not often, because it hurts his feelings :(

Wow , very informative thanksto everyone who shared their ideas on this post.I got freaked out a year ago and so i quit downloading objects all together. And i miss them.I have a very strong computer with lots of ram a great video card. And still i turn off shadows and mirrors, reflections and what not.But i noticed with the new Free Time game it terminates randomley when i play i also have all eps.I feel this poly count thing is vey interesting and relieved to see that it probably has nothing to do with this FreeTime ep. I love Vita's stuff i didn't have a problem with Vitas but i noticed it with Reflex stuff, just adding my two cents.:-)

I had to return to let you guys know that i removed insimenator from my game and all is well the crashing stopped. I downloaded a couple of recolors of the Sims 2 content and i have had no problems. I'm itching for Vita's downloads. Thanks.

*stares in awe at Yakov*

I LOVE threads like these. Quackers and Diana brought half the battle to the table and Yakov the other half. So many people (like myself) buy a game without the slightest idea of how it works. Understanding polycount and animations are very important for those who have older computers and those who have large lots with tons of CC in it. I created a HUGE house (IE: square) with reflective flooring and paintings to cover every inch. Then the furniture, etc... Talk about choppy! Now I have smaller homes with just enough to keep the sim happy and my game runs soooo much better. I removed a lot of the flower beds, etc... and the difference was amazing. You'd think it was a small detail... but plants suck up a lot of ram. I notice the lag when a lot of people Smustle too.

Thanks to everyone for their great hints and tricks. I look forward to reading others.

Updated at Sims Cave (too big now to post everything here).  Updates include more Vita Sims, Elize 37@TSR, Huabanana (or whatever his name is ;) ) and Wall Sims (shocker, I tell you).  Thanks.  http://www.simscave.com/ferris/index.php?topic=1181.0

While I meant no malice by my post either, Odessa brings up a painfully obvious point. Alot of people pay zero attention to recommended computer requirements that most game manufacturers print on their boxes, they only look at the minumum requirements that're there (indeed, if at all) and say "I can run this on my 7 year old Pentium3". Well, the fact is that you can, but you're going to have to do without seeing things like high polycount hair, cars, mansions, etc. and a large share of the CC that's out there, or play it as a choppy, frustrating pain-in-the-neck. Minimum requirements are just that, there's no way that a min. spec machine will play this game any way, shape, or form that most people like to play it at.

My old computer that I used to play the Sims 2 on hardly had the minimum requirements so I never bothered to try downloading anything else or getting too many eps. The water flashed red, and when I tried pets the walls flashed red but the water was at least gray. Yuck. I'm so happy with my new lappy.

MCPuffs was checking out the polys on that counter for you Pegasus.

Here is what she found... "As for the Caravan Campagne Kitchen, I believe I've figured out what the problem is.

The person on the other site is comparing two different files - hence the two different poly counts.

She's comparing the object:
 Set_Campagne_Frances_MeubleHautTiroirs_Cuisine.package, which has a poly count of V 4474 F 3884
with the object listed directly above it in my screenie:
Set_Campagne_Frances_MeubleHautPortesTiroirs_Cuisine.package, which does have a poly count of V 10494 F 10094

And for the second one she questioned - about the counter - she has opened the Campagne bathroom counter in SimPE and is looking at it's poly count thinking it's one of the Campagne Kitchen counters. The proof is in her screenie, in the file name. It says [sdb] in it. That stands for Salle De Bain, bathroom in French. Where as both of the Campagane Kitchen counters contain "Set_Campagne_Frances_MeubleBas0*_Cuisine". "

That explains it!  MCPuffs added screen shots to the posting also.  You just had the wrong counter is all.  ;)

Ok that explains it better I was like what?? lol I think I sat on this thread while I went on to sleep. I still had SimPE and this thread still opened this morning! I narrowed my CC down to about a gig and a half and thought that was nothing. It still takes a long time to look at it all in SimPE, and get all those poly counts. So I hope people with older PC's appreciates what your doing. I sent my son your link.

Hardwaretoad: I understand what your saying. My son plays on bare min. requirements. So I told him he better watch what CC he adds or don't come crying to me. He only keeps about 5 hairs and few extra things he likes. I think he told me when I asked this morning that he took his CC from about 50 megs down to about 25 megs. He also had to go back to Season's because he just couldn't run them all. So I told him pick and choose and let go of the rest till he's working again. He's back to just the Sims and Season's, then he downloaded the Mustang and driveway. Everything else is gone. And your right people with older PC's that are bare/close to bare requirements shouldn't be downloading a ton of stuff, hard as that is.

In truth, I blame EA for a number of the problems The Sims 2 has with custom content (regardless of poly-count); the game generally red-lines the VPU (video processor) for no reason other than crappy coding by EA/Maxis.  This leads to artefacts (visual irregularities like triangles popping up in the display) even on great systems.  EA/Maxis made a fast render engine for The Sims 2 that definitely shows the handiwork of unskilled coders on lots of levels; they basically recreated the wheel and cut-corners in the development of the fast render engine just like they did with every other aspect of The Sims 2.  EA patently DID NOT do adequate QA testing or do anything but the barest necessity of debugging to get the product shipped to market.

There was a The Sims 2 version we never saw as consumers, it was markedly different in character and traces of it can be seen in the guts of the files, chiefly in the animation.  It is obvious that two different methods of animation have been poorly merged into a deeply flawed and "unique" novel version that has held-back and complicated the development of new animations and animation tools for the custom content creating community.

The "original" version of The Sims 2 was "RTM" in 2003, but, in the eleventh hour, a decision was made to change the meshing system, animations, and fast render engine that delayed release of TS2 for more than a year as EA/Maxis went into crisis mode and re-wrote large sections of the the code and created a the new fast render engine we saw in the final release.  During this re-write a great deal of community made items that had been originally solicited by EA/Maxis for inclusion in TS2 were discarded since the game no longer would support the format in which these community-made items had been created.

The beta version I saw in late 2003 bears little in common with the beta version I saw in early 2004.  The CAS for instance in Body Shop still includes some tools that were left out of the final game.  Looking through the game's core files with SimPE you run across lots of relics of things that were stripped out - like an alternate high-tech/industrial theme CAS screen, roof skylight windows, stubs of life-stage ages and stubs of additional aspirations.  Some of this content has be "found" and made available by Numenor and others.

Sims were supposed to have seven life stages (the elder we now see was originally meant to be the oldest, one of the most telling stages that we lost was a real middle-aged stage that stood between prime of life and decrepitude), they were supposed to have actual growth during their youth so a teen started at stretch 0.94 and then would grow to stretch 1.0, age transitions were to be more subtle rather than the Pokemon fireworks transition we now see, there was supposed to be an actual fit morph with a distinct shape... most of these things were hacked out of the game in a sloppy manner and the code covering their operation poorly removed or terminated leading to wasted CPU cycles that do not improve the performance of the game.

Then we should consider the known randomly occurring catalogue bug that afflicts all players with significant amounts of downloads.  The catalogue function collapses and loses data constantly because EA simply didn't even try to make it work well or properly.  You can see plenty of help threads on InSIM asking about custom content not displaying in even the Base Game and University before the appearances of the "disable" feature in Nightlife.

The crappy coding, the last minute re-write, the cobbled-together fast render engine, etc - these all add to the general malaise of the game in a much more detrimental way than poly-counts.  If you want to blame someone for the problem The Sims 2 has with high-poly items, then look no farther than the branding on the package: EA.  They designed the game to be usable on the widest number of systems so they could maximise profits and this contains the unspoken lie that it will support custom content even on the most antiquated system that barely meets the game's low-end requirements.

I would prefer to see the tone in this undertaking of posting high-poly items to address the real culprits, rather than heap scorn and blame on custom content creators.  In the final analysis, no one is being forced to download custom content, however they are being persuaded by EA/Maxis to believe they need this game and therefore being forced to suffer the crap coding of lacklustre, lowest-bidder software development.

I would never blame the creators. I didn't get that impression for this thread. I hope that wasn't the intention. I thought it was just to help those with older PC's having problems. I think or I should say I hope most of us know from our experience with EA know that they have the shoddiest programmers around and are responsible for 99.9 percent of the problems we have in our games. Or why else would it be that I can run Oblivion and their massive poly count meshes with 0 problems. I try downloading a large house on a large lot and I have lag even with 8 gigs of Ram and a 1 gig video card. They couldn't convince me in a 100 years that people don't experience these problems in Beta testing, they just all of a sudden appear to the millions of users after they install the game. Almost every single one of their EP's has at least 2 patches, on top of that most the time those patches don't fix a lot of the issues. Look at the freetime patch TwoJeffs already did a critical fix for the aspirations. EA did nothing. They still haven't addressed the phone call issue, other than magazine subscriptions. Besides, as I said I looked at almost all my CC I'd say at least 80 to 85 percent of it. Those are about the averages for most of the CC and I think I showed that EA with their 800 per tile didn't even stick to that spec. on a lot of their CC, other than the smaller items. Besides EA knew full good and well about CC and that it would take more than 256 megs of video to run this game smoothly once people added all the EP's even without any CC. It's all about the money.

Updated Vita Sims, Wall Sims, MTS2...

Jonesi has updated her Sept. Sofa Set in response to this list!  WOOHOO!

well, if EA had bohered to throughly test their games before releasing them, they wouldn't even have needed to make patches. and for the patches to be bugged :smt120? I say, Better shape up EA. from what Beosboxboy says, the earlier version sounds much better. I really hope EA puts in growing/more + betetr lifestages in sims3. I love making stories, but it's really annoying when all the characters have to be a certain age for it to look natural according to the height)

:blob6: EA!

on another note: I just found a funny message about downtime over at the official site. in case it's gone when you go to see, here's a screenshot

I have my Sims2 game installed on two different laptops and the way they run on each is sooooo different you wouldn't even think it's the same game. I have only a handful of mods (two dozen at most) and almost no CC. My laptop is a Compaq Presario 2000. The memory and processor are good, but my video card isn't the best. I only have until Seasons installed. It runs a little choppy, depending on the lot size, decorations, number of Sims etc. My husband's computer is a HP Pavilion Entertainment PC. I have up to Bon Voyage on his and will eventually install FreeTime. Things run so much better on his computer, but oh well.

One reason I don't plan on ever playing Sims 3 because I just don't have the means (or inclination) to go and buy a new laptop to play it. I know my computer won't be able to handle it and even hubby's might not.