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Simmers' Paradise => Sims 2 Apartment Life Chat => Topic started by: kathy on August 31, 2008, 01:34:49 am



Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on August 31, 2008, 01:34:49 am
As we all know in this last EP release brought Witches to our game. Some have embraced this concept while some were bothered by it. However one community member/site owner DLMulsow has taken it upon herself to declare that it embraces satantic behavior and even decided to mass email her members concerning it and ban those who disagree/question her authority.
 
Quote

THE NEWEST EP, APARTMENT LIFE, HAS INCLUDED WITCHES AND WITCHCRAFT IN THE
GAME'S PLAY.
 
I'm not especially excited about the witchery as satanic materials are not
allowed on this site. I hope everyone will be responsible with their photos
and story material regarding this new feature.
 
Juvinile hyjinks will be allowed, but apparently evil and satanic content
won't be allowed. If you are unsure of the material you want to post, don't
be afraid to ask.
 
I have not been able to review the new EP yet so as I get opportunity,
discussion may insue on the topic.
 
DLMULSOW'S SIM~ANTICS IS A CHRISTIAN BASED SITE AND DOES NOT TOLERATE
SATANIC MATERIAL AND/OR CONTENT.
 
Thanks for your patience and understanding in this matter as I want to keep
this site a friendly place for ALL to come.
 
Sincerely,
DLMulsow

While some of us may have found this amusing at best and incrediably absurd at the same time it has me rather curious as to what everyone else thinks.
 
I, personally, think some people need to get a grip on reality and possibly seek help.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: EKozski on August 31, 2008, 01:46:19 am
Some Christians, not all, can be a bit extreme in their..........whatever.
Some of my closest friends are Christians and they just shrug it off.

I'm Catholic. I don't own the game. But my opinion is, it's just a freaking game. Enjoy it the way it was intended to be enjoyed. And, some people need to get a life.

Also, I will say this, Drama Queen.

EDIT: Does she believe in using a spell checker?!!?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: MoronStyle7 on August 31, 2008, 01:58:54 am
I didnt got it... wtf are you talking about??

EDIT: is she gone mad? its just a fuc*** game!!! satanic materials... what the hell is she smoking?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ancienthighway on August 31, 2008, 02:01:00 am
I think she left off a few words in her description of her site.  
Quote
DLMULSOW'S SIM~ANTICS IS A CHRISTIAN BASED SITE (when it suits my purpose) AND DOES NOT TOLERATE
SATANIC MATERIAL AND/OR CONTENT


Is the Wizard of Oz a Satan movie too?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on August 31, 2008, 02:03:02 am
rofl ancient.. it is now


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Corinne on August 31, 2008, 02:05:18 am
I wish I knew what to say, but I don't.

I'm just angry and sick that she banned (and/or threatened to ban) people for trying to educate her and attempting to show her that witches and magick is not satanic.

I won't judge - I just know better.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: J00wish on August 31, 2008, 02:13:56 am
I think it's sad to judge something without knowing the facts. To assume that a game made for teens up would have satanic storylines is just silly. I don't even understand why the email went out (although I never received a copy).


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: EKozski on August 31, 2008, 02:15:42 am
I didn't get a copy either.

And I checked my email twice, because I'm so nice :D

If I did get one, I'd more or less to her to get a life.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Jron7667 on August 31, 2008, 02:29:29 am
According to my brother's church and his wife, yes. Yes it is. But then again they burned Harry Potter books.

In my Humble opinon, these are the real dangers to our children's minds and lives.  Something is twisted in their heads and every thing is evil and they color their lives with shadows of their own making.

I don't like it, but it is their lives and not mine. As long as they don't infringe upon my beliefs and ideas, they can stay to themselves.



Quote from: ancienthighway;1359470
I think she left off a few words in her description of her site.  


Is the Wizard of Oz a Satan movie too?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on August 31, 2008, 02:46:46 am
See Jron that is exactly how I feel. Those sorts of beliefs are indeed abuse.. you are teaching ignorance and hatred. But as long as they aren't shoving their beliefs on me then whatever.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: EKozski on August 31, 2008, 02:49:35 am
Same thing with my Christian friends. They don't shove their religion down my throat, and I don't shove my beliefs down theirs.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: SIMale on August 31, 2008, 03:00:11 am
Isn't vampires and zombies evil too by those standards?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on August 31, 2008, 03:04:57 am
You would certainly think so now wouldn't you?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Mickey57 on August 31, 2008, 03:05:03 am
I read all of her posts on the subject and there was a bit more detail that she gave out.  For instance, as an example, she said that items that had symbols such as pentagrams would not be tolerated and objects like inverted crosses would not be tolerated.  She seems to feel that it is not appropriate to embrace the darker side of witchcraft.  She also stated in her post that the site would allow objects and items that reference more of a 'Bewitched' type of lighter view on witchcraft.  

I also read some of the responses to her rule and from what I read, they were more attacks than responses.  They, in my opinion, seem to be the 'you are stupid if you don't agree with me....' type of responses rather than people simply stating their opinions and moving on from there.  

If I recall correctly, there was also a similar discussion here a long time back regarding stories and objects involving slavery and other forms of human abuse.  Some wanted to see items that would assist in creating stories of such behaviors and those in control here took the stance that such items and stories would not be tolerated for any reason.  

How is one really any different from the other?  Site owners have the ultimate right to determine what their site will or won't tolerate and will or won't promote.  Those who enjoy the site then have to make a choice regarding whether or not they want to continue using the site.  Those who make items that violate policy must then choose to either keep their creations to themselves or choose post them elsewhere.  

I often think we forget two important things when visiting sites.  

First, the site owner owns the site and has the ultimate right to determine what will be posted there.  If visitors and creators don't like it, they can join another site or create their own.  

Second, it's only a game!

For me, the bottom line is:  I don't agree 100% with things I see here at this site or at that site.  I choose to go to the sites because I like the people and the creations.  If there is something I want that these sites don't offer, I go elsewhere.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Paden on August 31, 2008, 03:13:49 am
I think she is hiding her ignorance and fear behind her beliefs. Wicca and paganism are not Satanism and she is sadly mistaken in lumping them all in together. I was raised with religion but have learned about other forms of belief. If you don't educate yourself, then you should just keep your mouth shut about your ignorance and let people wonder rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: J00wish on August 31, 2008, 03:17:06 am
It's tough when you are talking about religion. I saw the whole thread too. There was heated discussion of course but when you see an email stating that you are a devil worshiper for your religion I can understand the anger. It's one thing to set a standard about what is and is not posted on the site. But to call it satanism and then not allow those to at least speak their peace is going to get a backlash.

From what I saw the tensions were high and she had a chance to diffuse the issue and make an interesting discussion out of it. Sadly it was dealt with by banning and deleting. When you are the owner of a site your rules are what make the site work. But you have to understand that when you run a community based site you have to be able to absorb the heat. Especially when it was something you said to start it. People make mistakes or send things without realizing exactly how bad it will be received by those who believe differently. She alienated a lot of people by her responses.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Death by Flies on August 31, 2008, 03:29:15 am
Someone should tell her that lying is sinful. ;) It seems all this is doing is causing people to lie just to make an admin happy. Most who agree will agree out of fear of being banned. Same goes for those who say nothing at all.

Kathy, you should make a thread saying that clouds are made of marshmallows and threaten to ban anyone who disagrees. That's my opinion.

But whatever...places like that lose members fast. It's good to set rules, but that's just ridiculous.

If anyone genuinely agrees with her, however, that's absolutely fine as long as you don't threaten people. lol. More power to ya.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: aliccolo on August 31, 2008, 03:42:48 am
Quote from: Death by Flies;1359515

Kathy, you should make a thread saying that clouds are made of marshmallows and threaten to ban anyone who disagrees. That's my opinion.


I was about to suggest something along those lines too, DbF (great minds think alike lol.)

I'm just not sure why religion needs to come up at all.  I mean, it's just a game.  Is it really worth getting so bend out of shape?  If you honestly believe it's Satanic, good for you.  But why force your beliefs on others and go ban-crazy?  Why silence people with differing opinions or beliefs?  Why should I convert or declare anything about my beliefs in order to participate in a Sims 2 forum?  *glares*  This just conjurs up the images of Soviet gulags...


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: MoronStyle7 on August 31, 2008, 03:51:24 am
Quote from: SIMale;1359505
Isn't vampires and zombies evil too by those standards?


I guess so, but its so weird, I guess I'll never understand that since I'm Jewish, its a game! com'on! and now you gonna tell me that robots are satanic too...


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Mihura on August 31, 2008, 04:03:58 am
Yes it's just a game and even in the game and for me witches don't appear so satanist. ;)


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: MoronStyle7 on August 31, 2008, 04:15:02 am
Yea, the only "satanic" action they can do is to fire up sims/objects...


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: EgyptianGoddess on August 31, 2008, 04:17:20 am
wow, that's just nuts-a site like that is not even a site worth joining..now I see why I stick to the same sites only.
  any other views I could have shared on this topic were clearly expressed by other wonderful members, so i'll leave it at that.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: SVT on August 31, 2008, 05:00:01 am
erh... has somebody told the ignorant that satan was a late creation of the medieval christian administration to make the people pay the church's taxes?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: CuriousSimmer on August 31, 2008, 10:11:28 am
Ridiculous. As a Christian, I find this to be along the same fundamentalist lines as Harry Potter being a book about satan worship. Get a grip!


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Enayla on August 31, 2008, 10:19:57 am
Ehh… I think that’s the last time I visited that site. The whole thing seems a little absurd, to me.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on August 31, 2008, 10:22:39 am
Quote from: Death by Flies;1359515
Someone should tell her that lying is sinful. ;) It seems all this is doing is causing people to lie just to make an admin happy. Most who agree will agree out of fear of being banned. Same goes for those who say nothing at all.
 
Kathy, you should make a thread saying that clouds are made of marshmallows and threaten to ban anyone who disagrees. That's my opinion.
 
But whatever...places like that lose members fast. It's good to set rules, but that's just ridiculous.
 
If anyone genuinely agrees with her, however, that's absolutely fine as long as you don't threaten people. lol. More power to ya.

Quote from: aliccolo;1359521
I was about to suggest something along those lines too, DbF (great minds think alike lol.)
 
I'm just not sure why religion needs to come up at all. I mean, it's just a game. Is it really worth getting so bend out of shape? If you honestly believe it's Satanic, good for you. But why force your beliefs on others and go ban-crazy? Why silence people with differing opinions or beliefs? Why should I convert or declare anything about my beliefs in order to participate in a Sims 2 forum? *glares* This just conjurs up the images of Soviet gulags...

See while I find that suggestion funny as hell and I would hope people would take it in jest you have to wonder how many wouldn't or would, as you guys noted, simply agree out of fear of being banned.
 
Mikey for me it isn't a matter of her being a site owner or not because you are indeed correct, we can set whatever rules we want and if you don't like it you can find another site. It is more for me that what is being spewed in one second it is a Christian site, which I find laughable at best considering the amount of theft that has transpired on that site, and then next showing what type of hypocrite she is by shutting down people who do not share the same beliefs as herself.
 
Essentially what she has said is her religion is the only true religion and anyone who dares to disagree is evil and she pitys them. I'm atheist, was raised in a fairly strict Catholic household, I am not one to degrade anyone for their belief system, no matter what it may be. If you worship Satan fine.. hell if you worship the Easter Bunny more power to you, the only thing that I ask is that you respect my family and myself and not try to push your beliefs off on me. If you want to discuss religion with me I will willingly discuss it, with an open mind, however if you want to bash me over the head with your bible it isn't happening.
 
And I believe that is what has quite a few people so upset. I only saw snippits of the thread and while some people were visabily disgusted and told her that she was a hypocrite, which I'm sorry under the circumstances I would expect no less, I think for the most part people were trying to understand why and educate her that Pagans/Wiccans are not Satanists.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: vickylougrl on August 31, 2008, 11:04:42 am
Imho it's her site and she can really do whatever she wants.  Do I agree with her?  No.
But she does have the right to request members not to post things she does not want on her site.  Yes she does.

Someone should however explain to her that a witch is not a satan worshiper.  That a pentagram is a protection symbol not a symbol of the devil and it only becomes Satanic when it is inverted.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: jaccirocker on August 31, 2008, 11:09:47 am
All I have to say is that she needs to get a grip on reality, and maybe she should realize that stealing is a sin too, as is lying. No matter if it's small or big all sin is sin. Further more it's a fricking game, who care if we have witches, wolves, aliens, elves, faeries, and the list could go on. If you don't like it don't play with it, but don't cram your beliefs, misconceptions and other bullsh!t down people's throats. And yeah spellcheck is a friend, she could have used it.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: lewisb40 on August 31, 2008, 11:14:26 am
Game.  Real Life.  Very different in definition. Please get that!

I personally don't have attachment to icons in religion, meaning they are just objects. I never understood the fear of seeing a pentagram or inverted cross would cause me harm. I would have to believe that objects have powerful energy in it, and the science driven part of my brain does not absorb that. ;) I guess that is why I am not part of organized religion, but I don't knock anyone else's beliefs.

I think that people expressing their imagination through the Sims game, is art at work.  Just the same with anything else in life, if you don't like it then don't look, watch, or read it. It's not for you. Leave the thread or the site if you are offended. With all the different sites out there, has to one that will welcome all the witchery and satanism you want to express.  Just don't do it at DLMulsow. :giggle:

*sigh*  Just grow up!


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: MixdCrysy on August 31, 2008, 12:11:50 pm
It is truly sad to hear of this. I would never want to push my beliefs on others, force them to think, walk, talk or act just like me.  I agree with everyone here, I feel like as long as your happy believe in what ever you want to. Banning people who speak of their opinion's that differs from yours when you asked for it is terrible.

Quote from: jaccirocker;1359783
All I have to say is that she needs to get a grip on reality ..... And yeah spellcheck is a friend, she could have used it.


lol I was trying to figure out what she meant by 'insue' :lol:


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: bear5000 on August 31, 2008, 12:17:06 pm
I got the email and deleted it, I really missed the magic from the first sims so I'm glad it's back, besides my wife isn't a satanist and she's a practicing witch, so labeling people out of fear isn't cool.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: TheDebofNight on August 31, 2008, 01:13:14 pm
I find the sheer and utter stupidity in it hilarious. It is just a game and not meant to be taken literally, honestly. I saw nothing satanic about the witches in the game, and trust me I spent the better part of three days since getting the EP looking for them just so I could test them out and see.

Though sadly upon finding out that witches were in the game I kind of suspected that something would happen like this, where it was taken to an extreme.

Everyone is entitled to their own belief system and what they want to see on their site, that is their right as an owner. What I think is absolutely disturbing is that she’s banning people that don’t share in her opinion. Religion is a touchy subject and she really should have known upon posting and sending out her little email, that there were going to be those that didn’t have her views and would try to explain it. As a site owner she should have known this and been prepared to instead of banning actually take the time to listen to her members and find a happy medium on her so called Christian (when it suits her site) that she has.

Bottom line her banning people from my angle is just wrong, a forum is meant to give its members a place to speak freely and not somewhere that they have to hide what they think; just because they fear the admin might very well ban them for that belief. Its being small minded and hypocritical on her part.

Ugh, small minded people make me sad.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Cinamun on August 31, 2008, 01:34:18 pm
This is the first i've heard of it. I don't really think playing my little old computer game that just happens to have a witch in it will send me to hell wearing gasoline panties.. but, to each his/her own.
 
I respect any site owner's wish to allow/disallow any content they see fit. I don't have to agree or disagree with it. All I have to do is continue to be a mad addict of the sims and eventually try to find some kind of treatment for said addiction...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
... help me..


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Lestergirl on August 31, 2008, 06:06:58 pm
No "Evil" SimsWitches, but Bewitch Witches are ok? That is so absurdly moronic and pathetically sad, in a hysterically funny kind of way. I am going to chuckle about this the rest of the day.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: queennocture on August 31, 2008, 07:53:03 pm
As a practicing Christian, I'm going to put in my two cents.  From what I was raised with, we are not supposed to allow something like the occult get in the way of our worship of God.  That's our personal belief.  I personally think that playing a computer game with mentions of witchcraft or reading a book like Harry Potter equals entertainment, not worship.  I don't take a vow to worship Satan whenever I play Sims 2 or read a fantasy book, so I don't understand DLmulsow's problem.

Of course, granted, there are people in my religion that think anything mentioning ideas outside of a literal description of the Bible is evil.  I personally call these people "idiots," and I hate that people get their views of my religion from them.

However, it is DLMulsow's site and it's her right to set the rules for the site.  Even if it means violating rules she already set down:
Quote
This site is friendly to most all diversity. DLMulsow is a Christian individual and all races, colors and creeds are accepted here. You are free to be different and unique. We will not tolerate bashing of any sort for individual opinions or concerns.
 It is also my right and the right of everyone else in the sim community to not visit her site. :D

Finally, I wonder why she would make a big fuss over a video game's version of witchcraft when the same game contains the potential for these "unChristian" behaviors:
pre-marital sex
adultery
co-habitation
streaking
male pregnancy
the ability to be gay/bi/whatever
aliens
zombies
vampires
Robots and the ability to have "relations" with robots
werewolves
plant people
Bigfoot
Genies
Maids in skimpy outfits
And overall, the ability to make sims live a life that she probably doesn't approve of.

(And that's before the game mods ^_~ )


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Deviancy on September 01, 2008, 01:45:45 am
In a world where Teletubbies were considered demonic and Harry Potter is considered to be Lucifer, this isn't shocking.  In a country where hate mongers send out email claiming Obama the anti christ and christians claim that Katrina was the result of homosexuality, I'm not surprised.   It's just funny because Maxis creates very G rated witches, vampires, werewolves and the like.  

She must think games like Oblivion and Worlds of Warcraft are portals to hell itself...


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: dracine on September 01, 2008, 02:53:32 am
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!

Can't stop laughing.


This is one of the many reasons why I don't beleive in religion.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: jerryking on September 01, 2008, 03:27:37 am
I agreee with Mickey57. I'm a Christian but I don't judge others, I let God do that. And it is her site to do what she wants and say what she wants. I like Vampires and Zombies in my game, theyr'e fun. But I don't think I would want them in my real life. And as for Witches, the only thing I know for sure about them is they act alot like my ex-wife.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Yaakovashoshana on September 01, 2008, 04:17:17 am
Well, on the flip side of that coin, there is a post at More Awesome Than You in which AL witches are denounced as offensive to Wiccans:

http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,12710.0.html

It doesn't matter how innocent and innocuous something is . . . somebody, somewhere will find a reason to get their panties in a bunch over it.

I am a fundamentalist Christian, and I laughed at the other fundamentalists who denounced Harry Potter. That was a book and this is a game. It is whatever one desires to make of it whether it's Dungeous and Dragons or Puff the Magic Dragon. Hmm . . . isn't the motto of the Order of the Garter something along those lines? "Evil be him who evil thinks of it."

As for Christians who don't like witches and other supernatural characters in games, books, and movies . . . Oh! Lighten up, will ya?!


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Chaavik on September 01, 2008, 04:50:09 am
Wow.. From what I read about, I didn't know what her problem was.

I enjoyed playing Sims 2 for entertainment. I never considered witches and witchcraft in Sims 1 to be Satanic or anything else for that matter. The same applies to the witches and witchcraft in Sims 2. The game is just a game. Pure entertainment.

She has the right as the site owner to decide what is allowed to be posted, discussed or uploaded, BUT to go that far to ban anyone who disagree with her is going a little too far. Heck, if she feels that the witches and witchcraft in Sims 2 are Satanic, then she doesn't have to buy and install Apartment Life if she doesn't want to see them. She didn't have to tell these people what they can do or not do. These people can easily get up and leave if they didn't want to deal with that.

I find it amusing that she didn't consider vampires, werewolves and zombies as offensive as the witches.... They're all supernatural beings.

It's all a game. Just entertainment.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: sabriena on September 01, 2008, 07:54:26 am
Her whole sim families will be nothing but witches and warlocks when she gets the EP. She's just putting on a charade to seem like she's a "good" Christian.

Why would you even make a big deal out of it? When she hands out candy for Halloween and a little kid dressed as a witch comes to her door does she yell at them and deny them candy because they're a witch and she deems that satanic? It's in the same realm of stupidity.

I hope one day she can educate herself and become more open minded and learn that games are just games. No more, no less.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Tenshii~Akari on September 01, 2008, 09:15:48 am
:?  Whoo boy... I can tell this might end up a hot mess.  I'm also Christian, but with everyone else that doesn't see the harm in having paranormals in the game... even though I hardly ever use them, if not at all (...but not for the claims of them being "unholy"... I just find them a little annoying sometimes).  Should it really be that big a deal to send out a mass e-mail?  :dontknow:  If you don't believe in the stuff, it shouldn't be a problem to deal with while playing the game.  Just ignore/delete them or don't use 'em.  It's been working for me for the past 3 years.  :lol:

To put it honestly, I don't see the need to be so stick-up-the-rear on that, since they're just game sprites, not religious icons or a forced practice of religion... but then again, it's her site and her choice, so that's as far as I'm going...  may not agree, but she's the one paying for it.  :angel:


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: GAMBLER on September 01, 2008, 09:35:57 am
Why is everyone bashing her for her beliefs?  Do you really have to throw a fit everytime someone else doesn't think or believe the same way you do?  After all it is her site.  The owners here do what they see fit, why can't she?  This double standard is lame.  She made it easy for you too.  If you don't agree, don't go there, if you do, then go there.  If you don't agree, you are still welcome just don't post satanic stuff.  Pretty cut and dried to me.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: papa_di on September 01, 2008, 09:44:10 am
I know people who won't allow their kids to watch Harry Potter or Cartoons that have magic in them. I agree with what mickey57 said It's her site she can do what she wants. I saw a lot of people on different sites kicked off because the site owner didn't like what they said or did and I didn't think it was that bad.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Firestar on September 01, 2008, 09:59:02 am
:rofl:  oh so thats why I couldn't join that site...actually as far as I am aware the pentagram was once used to depict the five wounds of Christ.  But, evil crittur that I am I shall say nothing more than its her site, I guess she can make the rules.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 10:04:08 am
Just keep in mind what not all Christians feel this way and the vast majority would see it as what it is.. a game. Secondly, Gambler, I'm not bashing her exactly. I found it interesting and am curious as to whom is actually offended by witches being in their game. There was also gross misperception given by this, that Witches and Witchcraft equate Satanism, and this is an oppurtunity for people to ask questions without getting their head ripped off and being banned.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Morgaine on September 01, 2008, 01:17:11 pm
I cannot understand any kind of extreme thinking... I AM a christian and it NEVER occured to me that a funny game could be satanic or something like that... besides, the bad boy/girl is the one who thinks the bad things, or not?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: MixdCrysy on September 01, 2008, 01:55:44 pm
Gambler, I don't think most were bashing her for her feelings, just like no one will bash you (at inism) for yours. I think it is wrong to ask for the opinions of others and then ban them when they do not agree with you. I see you feel similar in the effect that everyone should not be bashed for there beliefs. I do agree with you on another point; it is an easy concept to get. Because I don't like situation, I will not go to her site. I believe the debate is about what the she considers satanic, how people were offended by her actions after they voiced the opinion she asked for and about what we consider satanic. I think others might feel offended that it is assumed that because you are not of the Christian religion you can be categorized as a satanist. I see that this is your first post, so I dont want you to think we (the Insimenator community) are attacking this person without reason. She has made it a point to look down on others with different beliefs. It is very sad that to see that things like this still happen.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: GAMBLER on September 01, 2008, 02:13:59 pm
I just think picking out this single person is a little over the top.  Christianity and any other religeon is based on faith.  She has a firm belief, whether it's right or wrong.  I commend her for sticking to it.  What's going on here seems like reverse judgement.  If she believes witchcraft is satanic and you don't then woopiedoo.  Everyone is different.  This whole thread seems more like a 'witch'hunt, pardon the pun.

It was pointed out to me that kathy has a personal thing with mulsow too and there was a thread here before that kathy said she would ban people if they supported mulsow.

This whole thing is about judging others with different beliefs than your own.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Revan on September 01, 2008, 02:51:26 pm
She ode have the right to run her site the way she wants it.  But should not force belief onto other.  Last time I check we have the right to our opinions.  If you disagree with it that on them and vis versa.  I don't see where there is any bashing going on.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Care on September 01, 2008, 02:55:24 pm
I'm a christian, but I feel if you do not like whats on the ep don't buy it or just play around it, you don't have to make witches and use spells. I myself say it's just a game--get over it...


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 02:55:36 pm
Quote from: GAMBLER;1361308
I just think picking out this single person is a little over the top. Christianity and any other religeon is based on faith. She has a firm belief, whether it's right or wrong. I commend her for sticking to it. What's going on here seems like reverse judgement. If she believes witchcraft is satanic and you don't then woopiedoo. Everyone is different. This whole thread seems more like a 'witch'hunt, pardon the pun.
 
It was pointed out to me that kathy has a personal thing with mulsow too and there was a thread here before that kathy said she would ban people if they supported mulsow.
 
This whole thing is about judging others with different beliefs than your own.
I have never nor would never ban people if they supported her. This seems to be the fabric of someones imagination. My personal feelings aside this is nothing more than what I stated before. If you or Deanna wish to view it as something more than please feel free.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: MixdCrysy on September 01, 2008, 03:02:42 pm
I am sorry you feel this way. If it came to my attention that this was happening with another site with another site owner, I would still feel the same way. I wasnt argueing with you about anything you wrote; my whole point was dont ask for others to voice there opinion and then ban them becuase they dont think or feel like you. I think thats where there is a misunderstanding. I doesnt bother me about what this person believes in, it doesnt bother me what any one person believes in as long as they are happy and not trying to force their beliefs on me.  I have written this in my other posts as well. I also dont believe I am 'reverse judging' her, her actions can't be misconstrued in any way (IMO).

Gamber, if you dont agree with me that is fine; I would never force my opinion on anyone. We will just have to agree to disagree. With that said, I will have to bow out of this discussion before it gets any less uncordial.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ancienthighway on September 01, 2008, 03:04:02 pm
I believe both Squinge and I would agree that while Kathy has had personal issues with us, and vice versa, forgive and forget are also present.  I seriously doubt there's a witch hunt going on

Muslow made quite a name for herself here, earning multiple 3 day bannings constantly.  Much of the behavior she exhibited here was anything but Christian-like.  So yeah, there is history, but history is in the past.  Being more familiar with that history than you, I didn't see anything in the original post that hinted at a restart of the Kathy-Muslow "war".


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 03:08:08 pm
Thank you ancient.. you summed it up perfectly :)


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: GAMBLER on September 01, 2008, 03:13:40 pm
Quote from: ancienthighway;1361371
Much of the behavior she exhibited here was anything but Christian-like.
 

Looks a lot like you're judgeing her right there.  Who are you to decide what Christian behavior is anymore than she is to decide what isn't?  Big double standard here.

Quote from: ancienthighway;1361371
So yeah, there is history, but history is in the past.  Being more familiar with that history than you, I didn't see anything in the original post that hinted at a restart of the Kathy-Muslow "war".


Much, much history here and it certainly isn't in the past.  Some people really need to move on.


Title: Really?????
Post by: raynesonyx on September 01, 2008, 03:17:57 pm
I received that email also. I though "Wow that's a slap in the face to all practicing witches or wiccans." I think one thing that has yet to be mentioned is that witches don't even believe in the devil hence there can be no satanic worship... If god and the devil were playing football it would be the football stadium that the witches worship. They worship nature not the devil. That's just crazy! I am also inclined to believe that the person who wrote that statement doesn't realize that there is a difference between witchcraft and Satanism, they are not interchangeable.  Secondly it’s just a game! Now I take my Sims as seriously as the next woman (I was at the store when it opened for Apartment Life) but seriously have they lost their ability to step back and say "It's just a game," and mean it? And lastly I have a hard time listening to a site claiming to take the moral high ground when they redistribute meshes for hairs that were supposed to be nondistributable (not that I'm defending pay sites...They are evil, selfish, jerks!!!:angryfir:). Just some food for thought.  Before one opens their mouth they should know what they are saying.
:lurk:


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: RageRage on September 01, 2008, 03:26:33 pm
Gambler, as one of the people who she banned, I have to say that her behaviour was anything but christian (and yes, I do know what christian behaviour is). She was rude and insulting to several people who posted in the thread, even calling one of them 'demonic'. She flat out lied about the thread later on.

After the banning, when members of her forum became uncomfortable with her behaviour and decided to leave, she attempted to make amends, not by apologising, but by claiming she had been 'threatened', which was a complete lie. Of course, by this time she had deleted most of the thread, and banned most of the participants. Nobody in that thread was anything but polite to her. We only attempted to educate her in a subject she appeared ignorant of. In response to that, we were insulted in a particularly childish fashion.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: J00wish on September 01, 2008, 03:36:34 pm
Quote from: GAMBLER;1361308
I just think picking out this single person is a little over the top.  Christianity and any other religeon is based on faith.  She has a firm belief, whether it's right or wrong.  I commend her for sticking to it.  What's going on here seems like reverse judgement.  If she believes witchcraft is satanic and you don't then woopiedoo.  Everyone is different.  This whole thread seems more like a 'witch'hunt, pardon the pun.

It was pointed out to me that kathy has a personal thing with mulsow too and there was a thread here before that kathy said she would ban people if they supported mulsow.

This whole thing is about judging others with different beliefs than your own.


I've never seen a thread stating that Kathy would ban people. I have seen past logs and can tell you the general consensus by members both on the main site and the adult one was that DL was forcing her religion on other people (yes, she was also on the adult site). I was not there for it and am grateful. I am a member of DL's site and a moderator here. Although quite honestly I expected to be banned from there based on my post here or that I was a mod on InSIM. It's sad because there are people on that site that I really like. I've never spoken to DL and she's never made an attempt to speak with me directly. *shrugs*

The reason her email was placed up here was not because of who she is, but that she seems to be the ONLY person who made such an outlandish and hyperbolic statement about the game. One: She judged a game's contents without viewing it. Two: She made a very broad statement that insulted a lot of people. I was really sad to see that thread. Again, she had a chance to show acceptance to others outside of her faith (which she states in the thread and on the site) and to learn about a religion that she was obviously not clear on. I remember asking a Rabbi about Christianity and they called it a cult. To them... it was. I was highly insulted because there are many people dear to me in that religion and I felt it belittled their beliefs. But that's what you get for asking someone in one religion about another. My friend is Wiccan so I asked her about the religion yesterday morning. Ironically what was stopped on one site still helped me to grow and understand more on another.

I always commend people on sticking to their faith. But running a forum where there are people of multiple faiths (and lifestyles) there should be a certain amount of care when making statements. Unfortunately that email did not do this and the thread that has since been deleted (but has been saved on different forums) was one step away from bigotry. It also made a lot of people feel very unwelcome on that site.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 03:44:48 pm
I will say this though, for me personally, it is the matter at hand, not the person behind it. We had a similar thread when the whole Jack Thompson issue was transpiring. We had multiple threads regarding the entire paysite/freesite fiasco.
 
If it were anyone else in the community that had done this this very thread would still exsist for people to exchange ideas and educate one another based off of bad information being provided. And quite honestly if I mass mailed an email to the members of my forums telling them that Christianity would not be accepted here and anyone who wanted to share their Christian beliefs would be banned I would expect a much nastier reception than the one that has displayed in this thread.
 
I also have to commend the participants thus far for remaining mature and keeping the namecalling to a minimum.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: NikonSnow on September 01, 2008, 04:05:23 pm
:facepalm:

You know what, I'm not even going to be nice about it, it's time we called a spade a spade here.

Equating fairytale green witches with Satanism is STUPID.

Really, that's all I have to say. If she finds reality I hope she holds on tight with both hands.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: familyclifton on September 01, 2008, 04:05:17 pm
I  think she might have waited to see what people posted.  I have a lot of faith in people to do the right thing and I think most of us just want to have fun with the witches. I don't see most people going to dark  with them.   Theres a couple of sites out there that are a little dark for me, I just stay away from them. If her site is mostly about having fun and playing a game it will stay that way.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Nymphy on September 01, 2008, 04:20:01 pm
I ranted about this over at GoS..can I rant here too? (: *does the cute face and hopes that works*

First of all, its the ignorance. As pointed out by many people, most of what she has actually said which is Satanic is not. DLMuslow clearly does not know what paganism and witchcraft are. If someone is going to attempt to restrict their members then at least know what you are talking about. Being narrow minded when you make a decision that rules over a large amount of people is stupid. And as Sneebs (over at GoS) said Christianity does have links with Paganism...so she does not even know where her own religion comes from. Being informed of what you are against, means you are informed over what you are for.

Secondly, this is such a blatant over reaction over a game, it would be funny if it was not so offensive. The witches in AL are appropriate for kids, as the game is child/teen rated. So it makes no sense to restrict it from a Teen forum when the game is Teen itself. She even says in other threads that she finds the witches in it silly..which is exactly what EAxis' intent is.

Thirdly, she already has rules regarding expression of Satanism, and these are immediately shoved in your face when you register. People do know about that rule, and that its a Christian site. It was not neccessary to repeat that rule, espicially over something silly...looks drama wanting.

Lastly, she has no right to pass an ignorant, narrow minded viewpoint towards people who are supposed to be welcome to her site. Misunderstanding is something, but closed mind and spite towards a religious faith that you do not even attempt to understand and therefore lump as being Satanic is just foul. It seems like she is presenting that you must be Christian to be at her site. She can inforce rules on her site, guidelines..but what she finds personally offensive when its actually someone else's faith, that she will not try to examine and understand, is wrong. She owns a sim website...the sims is a game..beliefs are real, they are different to each individual. If she thinks she can eliminate a certain religion because she does not like it then that is dreadful.

Banning people who tried to inform and discuss with her otherwise was bad. The thread was deleted, but can be seen here (http://pics.livejournal.com/naughtydolphin/pic/001qa025).

Hopefully that rant did not come across as being bitchy..am very irritated by this. Very. Just find it offensive, and really un-needed. Bleh


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: jaccirocker on September 01, 2008, 04:24:26 pm
ROFL !!!!!! I wasn't going to respond because I didn't want this become a free for all. We all have had or know someone that has ran into bigotry in some way or another. Just because many of us has no idea about the Wicca witches or whatever we shouldn't make blanket assumptions. I don't know enough about it to equate it to anything, but I do know that this all about a game

It's not real so let's all get along and let others drown themselves in stupidity. God how I love this community (insim).

Quote from: NikonSnow;1361474
:facepalm:

You know what, I'm not even going to be nice about it, it's time we called a spade a spade here.

Equating fairytale green witches with Satanism is STUPID.

Really, that's all I have to say. If she finds reality I hope she holds on tight with both hands.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: dollxdestroyed on September 01, 2008, 04:25:52 pm
As another one of the banned, I have this to say.

I didn't receive the mass-mail, but saw it when it was posted somewhere (I was a member, but hadn't updated my e-mail address.) and at first I was shocked, then I was put-off. And when she added to it, for discussion, I was angry. This has less to do with Apartment Life witchcraft, and more to do with hypocrisy and narrowmindedness. In fact, one could likely remove the Sims 2 from the situation.

It was a comment in reply to someone's question about the other supernatural things in TS2. When asked if, since Witches are not to be portrayed as anything but "Hollywood", why was it okay to have vampires, werewolves and zombies? DL answered with something along the lines of, "Because they're made-up, and people unfortunately practice 'witchery', which is real-life Satanic involvement.

Well, a few pagans and pagan sympathetics were shocked to read this, some angrier than others. We spoke our piece on the subject, each in a mature and informative manner, suggesting that she educate herself. She replied saying that she was indeed educated enough to call it demonic, hateful, and evil practice. Granted what I said  after that was not entirely polite*, but no one broke the informative, mature demeanor in which we were trying to educate her.

When she made a hideous remark toward me, I responded. This response was deleted, and then soon after the entire thread was deleted - all participants but her and DrPF were banned.

Later she posted that several members were banned to protect her and her members. (Though from what, I've no idea.) She lied, accusing us of threatening her... and then proceeded to repeat that all were welcome, but Satan was not - hammering home the final nail in the coffin that held any respect for her.



(*I had said that, "If I am demonic as you say I am, and your Abrahamic hell exists, we will see each other soon." This was rude, and uncalled for on my part - however I never got a chance to apologize.)


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Mihura on September 01, 2008, 04:30:56 pm
Oh please calm down. It's just a game and a 2nd degree thread (for me in any case) so why have to be exceeded by that ? Relax and peace (there are enough sadness on this Earth). :angel:


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Stelio Kontos on September 01, 2008, 04:31:12 pm
Last time I checked, computer programming was atheist.


Seriously, stuff like this turns me away from religion.
Somebody ask her her opinions on Diablo 2.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Julie J on September 01, 2008, 04:48:27 pm
I posted over at GoS regarding this, I've quit that site for good this was the final straw I hate fundamentalism and been disillusioned with that site for a long time. She's lost two creators and goodness know how many members over this latest drama.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: caffeinated.joy on September 01, 2008, 04:55:56 pm
Whether fairy tale witches or people who practice wicca/witchcraft/paganism...evil isn't in what you are it's in what you do. Witchcraft being equated with evil...well. Most wiccans I know practice 'do as you will and it harm none'. There's good and bad in everything, including mainstream Christianity. I firmly believe in a person's right to believe what they want, but to impose those beliefs on others is wrong. If you don't like the ep because it offends your views, then don't play it. But don't ban others for disagreeing with you.  

I remember the same furor over Makin' Magic. I think it just gets a bit out of hand. It's make-believe green skinned witches. Just like in Sleeping Beauty, Wizard of Oz and Snow White. I don't have the EP yet, myself, so I don't know the extent to it, but even still, I don't see anything wrong. With vampires, zombies, werewolves and aliens abducting and impregnating helpless men , she's worried about witches? (If you want to split hairs for the sake of splitting hairs, wouldn't the alien abduction thing be the equivalent of space rape? Now that's evil. *rolleyes*)


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: GAMBLER on September 01, 2008, 05:15:04 pm
Quote from: dollxdestroyed;1361514
(*I had said that, "If I am demonic as you say I am, and your Abrahamic hell exists, we will see each other soon." This was rude, and uncalled for on my part - however I never got a chance to apologize.)


I can see how she thought this was a threat.  I'm sure she deleted the thread because it was getting out of hand.

I understand the email was sent to the members of the forum.  If you weren't a member it shouldn't affect you.  If you were a member then you knew her forum rules and shouldn't be surprised.

I also think you all believe Christians should somehow be perfect.  

If she thinks witchcraft is satanic, so be it.  Get a grip people.  Some of you believe witchcraft is not satanic.  Does that make you wrong?

Isn't there such a thing as a Christian Jew?  That's kind of a misnomer isn't it?  

This whole thing is ridiculous.  You also claim she has shoved this in your face.  I haven't seen this message posted anywhere else by her.  It's been cut and pasted by someone else.  She sent this to HER members, not to all of you.

I haven't been here long and mostly just download, it's a good thing because this crowd mentality is amazing to me.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: raynesonyx on September 01, 2008, 05:28:14 pm
Quote from: GAMBLER;1361602
I can see how she thought this was a threat.  I'm sure she deleted the thread because it was getting out of hand.

I understand the email was sent to the members of the forum.  If you weren't a member it shouldn't affect you.  If you were a member then you knew her forum rules and shouldn't be surprised.

I also think you all believe Christians should somehow be perfect.  

If she thinks witchcraft is satanic, so be it.  Get a grip people.  Some of you believe witchcraft is not satanic.  Does that make you wrong?

Isn't there such a thing as a Christian Jew?  That's kind of a misnomer isn't it?  

This whole thing is ridiculous.  You also claim she has shoved this in your face.  I haven't seen this message posted anywhere else by her.  It's been cut and pasted by someone else.  She sent this to HER members, not to all of you.

I haven't been here long and mostly just download, it's a good thing because this crowd mentality is amazing to me.


Most of us are members both here and there. We can't talk about it there so we discuss it here. If you don't want to read it don't.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: TrueBeliever on September 01, 2008, 05:44:53 pm
I really find this argument very amusing. It seems to be attack DL time again. As for Catholics being more balanced. I would say reread the History books on the Inquisition again.

Last time I checked, it was her site. She owned it. Therefore she can post whatever she desires and delete as same. Many here are site owners too, I am sure they exercise the same judgement.  Why is she blamed for something that all site owners do then, if this is not in fact a witch hunt? (Pun intended.)

Whatever your issues with DL are, I am sure that they will be gone over with almost orgasmic detail by the usual suspects one more time. With all the normal kool aid drinkers spouting the party line in unison. Leaving a great big slice of fact in the process, as that would get in the way of a good story.  And I am far more familiar with the story as well, I also am aware of the facts that conveniently get left out for the sole purpose of making others who do in fact have favor here. Look better.

We have all come to expect as much.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: hardwaretoad on September 01, 2008, 05:50:50 pm
Drama has always been DL's forte`, I find it ironic at best that this kind of furor is being met out over Saturday morning cartoony depictions of witches. Perhaps 'moronic' might be a more apt description of her hypocritical viewpoints on many a subject.

There's an old saying I'll paraphrase: "Better to let people think you a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: TheDebofNight on September 01, 2008, 06:14:42 pm
While I do not dispute the fact that it is DL’s board and she has a right to do as she pleases with it, I think there is a bit of the whole pot calling the kettle black thing going on here. You seem to not realize that the same rules apply, this is Kathy and Eric’s board and they do have a right to post what they want. If you don’t like this thread, then simply put. Exit the page and don’t read it, because you can not have your cake and eat it too. Kathy has a right to post a discussion on her own forum without people making a fuss and saying that it has to do with ancient history, which ancient pointed out isn't the case.

Quote from: caffeinated.joy;1361567
With vampires, zombies, werewolves and aliens abducting and impregnating helpless men , she's worried about witches? (If you want to split hairs for the sake of splitting hairs, wouldn't the alien abduction thing be the equivalent of space rape? Now that's evil. *rolleyes*)


I think a good point was made in the above statement, and it goes to prove that witches in the game and claiming them to be a Satanic is a bit of an extreme especially when you are only singling out one thing. As well as banning your members because they don’t agree with you or they try to educate you.

I see hypocrisy this matter as well.

Centuries ago the churches hunted out those that they thought to be vampires and staked them in the heart after they had already been buried or worse. Church and religious officials went on wild hunts for werewolves and even put several people to death because they believed them to be monsters of the night.  With that said why pick just the witches in the game, why not the other two things or as caffeinated.joy said why not the alien pregnancy.  Witches were not the only ones that were hunted down and burned at the stake by the churches and whatnot, but they seem to be the only one being focused on.

Had this been something that had been said in the beginning when University, Pets and Nightlife were put out I would have far more sympathy. As it is though, Religion is a touchy subject on any level and when someone feels that there are belief system is being insulted or offended or they are being backed into a corner they lash out.

The whole point however is that the thread wasn’t meant be considered one person calling another out, the thread was posted to get the views of members and see what they thought about it and if they thought that witches in the game were wrong.[/SIZE][/FONT]


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 06:28:45 pm
Deb very nicely put, thank you. I have always been very interested, though I am not religious, in religion. The persecution that ones have suffered because of their right to choose to believe in such and such seems fundamentally wrong to me.
 
When someone tells me they find something offensive the first thing I do is ask why. I want to understand their reasoning for it. There are certain things that obviously you do not have to question, ie child molestation but other things if you don't ask you will never fully understand and you remain ignorant in a sense. Even if I disagree I will give the benefit of the doubt and listen to the other people. Listening is very key here. When we, as a collective group, fail to listen to one person we miss that chance to bring about change, change that could benefit everyone. Mind you none of this is directly related to websites but life in general.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: J00wish on September 01, 2008, 06:37:26 pm
Quote from: GAMBLER;1361602
I can see how she thought this was a threat.  I'm sure she deleted the thread because it was getting out of hand.

I understand the email was sent to the members of the forum.  If you weren't a member it shouldn't affect you.  If you were a member then you knew her forum rules and shouldn't be surprised.

I also think you all believe Christians should somehow be perfect.  

If she thinks witchcraft is satanic, so be it.  Get a grip people.  Some of you believe witchcraft is not satanic.  Does that make you wrong?

Isn't there such a thing as a Christian Jew?  That's kind of a misnomer isn't it?  

This whole thing is ridiculous.  You also claim she has shoved this in your face.  I haven't seen this message posted anywhere else by her.  It's been cut and pasted by someone else.  She sent this to HER members, not to all of you.

I haven't been here long and mostly just download, it's a good thing because this crowd mentality is amazing to me.


See you in Hell a threat? That's not a threat. That's a statement that they are just as bad as they are portraying the people to be. People don't go to Hell by force, only if they are not good Christians, Right? No one said Christians were perfect. Christians don't even say that. I don't even think this is a Christian issue. I think it's an ignorance issue. I know far too many Christians who simply laughed at this when I told them about it.

As far as the Satanic issue... If you believe something that insults other people and make a public statement about it then you have two choices: Keep your mind closed and don't grow or open a book and read up on the subject. It doesn't make you any less a Christian to understand other religions.  

Regarding the email... we have a lot of members who also post there so it did go to them. Not that it matters. There are memos, letters, discussions, etc... that are shown to the public all the time and they weigh in. This email was not private. It was a mass email. My best advice to ANYONE who is sending an email to a bunch of people who are of different faiths on a subject that only effects that person is to think before you hit send.  


Quote from: TrueBeliever;1361660
I really find this argument very amusing. It seems to be attack DL time again.


I have no issue with her personally. I have been a member over there and while I've never spoken to her it is not because I didn't want to. I think you're missing the point. The email itself is what is offensive. I don't even know how many of these people know her. When it was posted on other forums it got the same response. Ironically most didn't know who she was. They were offended by content of the email and not the author.

Quote from: TrueBeliever;1361660
Last time I checked, it was her site. She owned it. Therefore she can post whatever she desires and delete as same. Many here are site owners too, I am sure they exercise the same judgement.  Why is she blamed for something that all site owners do then, if this is not in fact a witch hunt? (Pun intended.)


You are absolutely right. It is her site and she can do as she pleases. If she wishes to exclude all those who are not her religion than that's her choice. But this is about someone making a broad and incorrect statement which offended people. Also, not all sites ban people at the drop of a hat or because of one heated discussion. Some do, I'll give you that. But while it's their right to do so it's the peoples right to speak their mind about it.  Like raynesonyx said... they weren't allowed to speak about it there so they are speaking about it here.  

Quote from: TrueBeliever;1361660

Whatever your issues with DL are, I am sure that they will be gone over with almost orgasmic detail by the usual suspects one more time. With all the normal kool aid drinkers spouting the party line in unison. Leaving a great big slice of fact in the process, as that would get in the way of a good story.  And I am far more familiar with the story as well, I also am aware of the facts that conveniently get left out for the sole purpose of making others who do in fact have favor here. Look better.

We have all come to expect as much.


I'd love to know what your last statement means. Please clarify. I was not here for the issues or when DL was on this site. Many members here did not see it and were not participants in the issue on hers.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: raynesonyx on September 01, 2008, 06:43:13 pm
:happy7:
Quote from: J00wish;1361745
See you in Hell a threat? That's not a threat. That's a statement that they are just as bad as they are portraying the people to be. People don't go to Hell by force, only if they are not good Christians, Right? No one said Christians were perfect. Christians don't even say that. I don't even think this is a Christian issue. I think it's an ignorance issue. I know far too many Christians who simply laughed at this when I told them about it.

As far as the Satanic issue... If you believe something that insults other people and make a public statement about it then you have two choices: Keep your mind closed and don't grow or open a book and read up on the subject. It doesn't make you any less a Christian to understand other religions.  

Regarding the email... we have a lot of members who also post there so it did go to them. Not that it matters. There are memos, letters, discussions, etc... that are shown to the public all the time and they weigh in. This email was not private. It was a mass email. My best advice to ANYONE who is sending an email to a bunch of people who are of different faiths on a subject that only effects that person is to think before you hit send.  




I have no issue with her personally. I have been a member over there and while I've never spoken to her it is not because I didn't want to. I think you're missing the point. The email itself is what is offensive. I don't even know how many of these people know her. When it was posted on other forums it got the same response. Ironically most didn't know who she was. They were offended by content of the email and not the author.



You are absolutely right. It is her site and she can do as she pleases. If she wishes to exclude all those who are not her religion than that's her choice. But this is about someone making a broad and incorrect statement which offended people. Also, not all sites ban people at the drop of a hat or because of one heated discussion. Some do, I'll give you that. But while it's their right to do so it's the peoples right to speak their mind about it.  Like raynesonyx said... they weren't allowed to speak about it there so they are speaking about it here.  



I'd love to know what your last statement means. Please clarify. I was not here for the issues or when DL was on this site. Many members here did not see it and were not participants in the issue on hers.


J00wish you seem like a cool cat I think we could be friends. Also I couldn't agree more.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ~simaholic on September 01, 2008, 06:43:24 pm
This is the Teletubbies all over again. Some churches banned their kids from Telletubies because Tinky Winky had a bag and he is a male tubby. Harry Potter is evil, even noddy is evil. I am so sick of certain churches blowing stuff out of porportion. I am a Christian and proud of it. I have read all the Harry Potter books, my kids watch the telletubbies and noddy. I am sure I am still going to heaven, if I buy myself the new expansion *sigh* I wish people would stop being so dramatic about everything. They are just making more anti-christian people by making such redicilous remarks. My Gay friend is my daughters Godfather I mean for heavensake, Sims should completely be banned cause you can have gay sims, werewolfs, vampires, zombies and now witches. Grow up people Sims is just a game :D


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Care on September 01, 2008, 06:48:28 pm
WOW I am going to chime in again this is most defiantly why you shouldn't talk politics or religion, but my gosh such drama I can't seem to quit peeking into this thread LOL!!!!!


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 06:56:43 pm
I have obviously heard about the Harry Potter thing but I have never heard about the Teletubbies issue so I will be looking at up in a moment.
 
Honestly it isn't only Christianity that does it, it is all religions to a certain extent. This sense of fear because something is different. As someone else pointed out we, as individuals, corrupt things and make them evil.
 
I do not believe that your God is going to cast you into the pits of hell just because you play a videogame, or because you allow your children to go tricker treating or because you have a homosexual friend.
 
Bottom line you know in your heart whether or not you are a good person. You don't have to belong to such and such religion to be a good person either and just because you belong to such and such religion it doesn't mean you are a good person. We all have choices that we have to make somewhere along the line. Misinforming people and terrorizing them isn't the way to get your point across. I believe a certain President of ours has done this and look at the mess we are currently in.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: hardwaretoad on September 01, 2008, 07:00:28 pm
UHOH! It's a sure sign from above when the votes for "What is she smoking" are at 66.6 %... :laugh:


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 07:04:00 pm
rofl toad
 
And for anyone else that is unfamiliar with the Teletubbies thing this is for your reading enjoyment. Now both of my daughters grew up watching this program and I had to fight with my eldest to get Dipsy (the green one) away from her so it could be washed.
 
Quote
The innocent world of the Teletubbies is under attack from America's religious right.
The Reverend Jerry Falwell, a former spokesman for America's Moral Majority, has denounced the BBC TV children's show. He says it does not provide a good role model for children because Tinky Winky is gay.
Cheerful Tinky Winky, the purple character with the triangular aerial on his head, carries a handbag - but apart from that seems much the same as his friends Laa-Laa, Dipsy and Po.
The characters are famous for their use of baby language, including the catchphrases "eh-oh" meaning "hello", and "uh-oh" for "oh dear".
But the Teletubbies have made the Rev Falwell, chancellor of Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, hot under the collar. He decided to "out" Tinky Winky in the February edition of his National Liberty Journal.
'Subtle depictions'
In an article called Parents Alert: Tinky Winky Comes Out of the Closet, he says: "He is purple - the gay-pride colour; and his antenna is shaped like a triangle - the gay-pride symbol."
He said the "subtle depictions" of gay sexuality are intentional and later issued a statement that read: "As a Christian I feel that role modelling the gay lifestyle is damaging to the moral lives of children."
In the same article he also condemned the US animated show South Park as "vile and impudent".
The Teletubbies, aimed at pre-school children, is immensely popular in the UK and around the world.
The show was first broadcast on US public TV last spring where it is now as popular as another children's show, Barney, a singing dinosaur. But perhaps parents should beware of Barney as well - he also happens to be purple.
'Absurd and offensive'
The Teletubbies are portrayed by actors in oversized, brightly coloured costumes. They all have television screens on their tummies and, according to the story line, live in a "chromedome" hidden in the hills.
Steve Rice, a spokesman for Itsy Bitsy Entertainment, which licenses the Teletubbies in the US, said : "The fact that he carries a magic bag doesn't make him gay.
"It's a children's show, folks. To think we would be putting sexual innuendo in a children's show is kind of outlandish.
"To out a Teletubby in a pre-school show is kind of sad on his part. I really find it absurd and kind of offensive."
A BBC spokeswoman said: "This is not the first time that people have read symbolism into a children's TV programme and it probably won't be the last. "As far as we are concerned Tinky Winky is simply a sweet, technological baby with a magic bag."



Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ~simaholic on September 01, 2008, 07:04:30 pm
Here you go Kathy :   http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_2352455.html
There is more, but this was the main reason :)

LOL you got something allready


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 07:07:00 pm
That is so insane. Thank you for that link. I watched that show daily for years with my daughters and as much as it annoyed me I saw it for what it is, an innocent show geared towards toddlers that seem to capture their attention so mommy can clean the kitchen.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: hardwaretoad on September 01, 2008, 07:14:49 pm
I remember reading an article on the net somewhere awhile back that referred to Barney as "The Lavender AntiChrist". Insidious... :smt120


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ronnie211797 on September 01, 2008, 07:23:11 pm
Wicca and Paganism are a belief system and those beliefs are not forced on people it is chosen by people. Most Wiccans avoid telling people they are Wiccan because of that very type of ignorance. The study of mother earth and the stars and waters that influence our very beings is in no way Devil worship. Ask her, what sign she is and I bet she could tell you, that is Wiccanism, shouldn't she be punished for knowing that?
 
Really wake up and smell the coffee, rose colored glasses need to be removed and people need to open their minds and stop being sooooo judgemental. Prejudice is not a pretty thing.
 
I am a Wiccan...witch if you so prefer to call it that. I believe that everyone in the end Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, etc.....
has their own belief sytem. People interpret things differently it is one of the side effects of free will. .....and it harm none do what ye will!


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 07:23:49 pm
What amazes me is that these are adults making these claims, not the children. Barney helps teach children the difference between right and wrong, to love and respect one another.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Sam the T-man on September 01, 2008, 07:29:24 pm
I have no idea what happened with her here either. I am also speaking as a Christian when I say this:

Sadly, there are a lot of so-called Christians who make the rest of us look bad. It happens with every type of person, and not just religions. This kind of person  invents the stereotype that so many others find offensive.

Everyone at my church is the epitome of a true Christian. They don't bash others' religions, there's no hate, they love others as themselves. I asked at the last Alpha course about how they view witchcraft and paganism, and not one of them said it was evil. Jesus himself had tax collectors as his disciples.

Christianity didn't start off having all these pagan influences; that was the fault of Emperor Constantine, who stole their ideas, moved Jesus's birthday to co-incide with the winter solstice, etc. He was also the one who denounced them - true Christians aren't this hateful. I must add at this point that Christians were also persecuted once upon a time.

It saddens me that there are still so many "false Christians" in existence that spew hatred and judgment, as well as impose such twisted view of others. Judging others is one thing we're told not to do. Interestingly enough, so is "bashing people with their bible" as Kathy put it ;)

Please don't think this is what Christianity means - it truly isn't.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: eccentricgnat on September 01, 2008, 07:31:48 pm
I don't mind the witches, I just hate it that the evil witch can call up lightning, which really hurts my eyes, and those awful roaches. I hate roaches.  I guess others hate story book witches with the same passion.

My own oldest daughter, won't let her kids do Santa at Christmas. I feel so bad for them.  They are missing something really fun.  Oh well, to each their own.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Tenshii~Akari on September 01, 2008, 08:02:58 pm
:lol:  As much as I despise Barney (thanks to a certain little boy in my family), I find that quoted statement ludicrous, HWT.  "Lavender AntiChrist"... doggone it, he's purple!  There's a difference!  :laugh:

Once more, I reiterate:  I agree that it's her site, a we can let her go on and do what she wants.  I have no qualms with a site owner setting rules that should be respected... no matter how ridiculous they may seem.  :?  (...since there's more to the web than just one site anyways, there's always another place to go if there's anything that makes a person uncomfortable at being at certain place... especially if said place restricts a few certain freedoms.  The internet is a sea of variety, that's for sure.)  

But getting back on the original subject (sort of) asking if AL = :devill:, I think that narrow-mindedness and fear truly does play in thinking that way... sometimes even "peer pressure", especially when you know others are watching what you're doing and you have any fears of "loosing the image" that you're supposed to represent.  

I'm 100% with what Sadie said... it's sad and true that we have a lot of persnickety people that make any religion seem quite shameful in the eyes of others (Christianity/Islam/Judaism/Wicca, or otherwise... we're all guilty of having someone in any area of religion)  It seems as if the "Golden Rule" is obsolete in some religions... or just limited to people who share the same beliefs.   It's definitely not a good way to represent what you stand for.  :dontknow:

Eh, but enough about that... I'm going back to having fun with my little devilish minions I call Sims.  :lol:  It's no harm done... all one needs to know is the differences between innocent fun and subliminal messages, or just virtual reality from real life.  :angel:


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Glamily on September 01, 2008, 08:41:38 pm
i think this is slightly odd.. every person is open to their beliefs (but I soo need spell check!) I know she is the site owner but honestly, she needs to pinch herself and realise that she DOESN'T own or run this world. Yes she owns the site but this game is not satanic (or however u spell it) Its a simple game just like Makin Magic for sims 1. Does anybody say that is evil or wateva.. no.. its just a simple game. Made for fun to be enjoyed. Simple as that.. Now rant is over, may not make sense but eh..


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: GAMBLER on September 01, 2008, 08:50:19 pm
Quote from: J00wish;1361745
You are absolutely right. It is her site and she can do as she pleases. If she wishes to exclude all those who are not her religion than that's her choice. But this is about someone making a broad and incorrect statement which offended people. Also, not all sites ban people at the drop of a hat or because of one heated discussion. Some do, I'll give you that. But while it's their right to do so it's the peoples right to speak their mind about it.  Like raynesonyx said... they weren't allowed to speak about it there so they are speaking about it here.  


You act as though she IS in fact incorrect or wrong.  That's a judgement.  What if she is right?  She believes what she believes and so do you, fair is fair.  Who is to say who is right or wrong?

Also, I read at her site that all are welcome but no satanic stuff.  Okay, I can deal with that and I'm sure many others can too.  

I'm sure if she feels threatened she would ban someone.  Wouldn't you if you felt threatened?  I saw the threads posted at GOS, she didn't attack anyone anymore than what they were flooding her forum with accusations of ignorance calling her 'stupid/ignorant' and 'you're going to hell' and 'you'll pay'.  Those sound threatening to me.  I don't blame her for banning people who threaten her.

But this big thing is J00wish sure sounds petty to say she is wrong.  You don't know that she is wrong.  You believe she is wrong.  And she believes she is right.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: gualsim on September 01, 2008, 09:48:34 pm
This is so fraking ridiculous!!! One of the main reasons to buy this EP, at least in my opinion, is because of the witches, I saw the trailers and I found them funny. Since the aliens, I did not like any of the new creatures.
So what would be next in her small mind, to listen simlish backwards to try to find hidden satanic messages or burn Enayla for her amazing Pixie Demonic skins?:evil2::evil2:
Instead of asking for banning witches, she should ask to send letters to stop securom. I am sure everybody will colaborate with that.
:cross::spanish:


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: pinkshoe on September 01, 2008, 10:34:30 pm
It seems no one is showing Dl any tolerance for her religious beliefs which was stated that this is what her church and there faith believe rather its correct or not isn't relevant but its her faith that has lead her to these conclusions which has lead to her being called ignorant and a bigot for trusting in her own faith!
I honestly don't think Dl pulled this out of her ass and said because I said so but its her faithfulness to her church and there teachings
I would hope we would not ridicule one for believing in there faith or mocking there beliefs no matter what there religious preference might be.
It's easy to see Dl has angered many by believing in her faith rather that information is right or wrong. We do hear everyone bitching tolerance yet it seems tolerated to ridicule and mock her for her own religious beliefs?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: J00wish on September 01, 2008, 10:39:59 pm
Quote from: GAMBLER;1361949
You act as though she IS in fact incorrect or wrong.  That's a judgement.  What if she is right?  She believes what she believes and so do you, fair is fair.  Who is to say who is right or wrong?

Also, I read at her site that all are welcome but no satanic stuff.  Okay, I can deal with that and I'm sure many others can too.  

I'm sure if she feels threatened she would ban someone.  Wouldn't you if you felt threatened?  I saw the threads posted at GOS, she didn't attack anyone anymore than what they were flooding her forum with accusations of ignorance calling her 'stupid/ignorant' and 'you're going to hell' and 'you'll pay'.  Those sound threatening to me.  I don't blame her for banning people who threaten her.

But this big thing is J00wish sure sounds petty to say she is wrong.  You don't know that she is wrong.  You believe she is wrong.  And she believes she is right.

I am stating that email in question is wrong in my opinion based on the statements by people who are in that religion (who are called witches) and have said there it has NOTHING to do with Satanism. These are the people who were offended. These are the people I am talking about. As far as DL is concerned, she has every right to her beliefs. I think that she should have thought better about HOW she worded the email. Using such generalized terms linking witches to satanism is incorrect in that there are people who are called witches and have nothing to do with Wicca.

I have found nothing that combines witches with satanism. But lets take this from a different angle: Christianity. While all will call themselves Christians, there are differences/disagreements within the different denominations.

I hope I clarified that I am NOT being petty and simply pointing out that doing some research before sending out a mass email would have saved a lot of headaches and not insulted so many people.

Quote from: pinkshoe;1362095
It seems no one is showing Dl any tolerance for her religious beliefs which was stated that this is what her church and there faith believe rather its correct or not isn't relevant but its her faith that has lead her to these conclusions which has lead to her being called ignorant and a bigot for trusting in her own faith!
I honestly don't think Dl pulled this out of her ass and said because I said so but its her faithfulness to her church and there teachings
I would hope we would not ridicule one for believing in there faith or mocking there beliefs no matter what there religious preference might be.
It's easy to see Dl has angered many by believing in her faith rather that information is right or wrong. We do hear everyone bitching tolerance yet it seems tolerated to ridicule and mock her for her own religious beliefs?

I am not mocking anyone for their religious belief. Nor am I ridiculing. Many people who are of the same faith have different opinions. I find it ironic that you are stating that DL deserves some religious tolerance when the issue is that other people felt they were not given the same respect.

Also, we are talking about a forum with members of different faiths and lifestyles who were obviously offended by a statement she made. NOT her religion. NOT her faith. I admire anyone who can be spiritual and follow their religious guidelines. There are too many hypocrites in this world.

You know what I'd REALLY like to see on this thread? The name "DL" taken out of the equation and instead of focusing on her discuss the real issue. People in general who feel the EP may or may not include inappropriate content. I don't want this to become a DL bashing thread. Kathy has made it quite clear that she is not posting this to be a thread about a person who is no longer on this site. I chimed in only for the interesting discussion on the EP and have no opinion of DL whatsoever.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ragingtexan on September 01, 2008, 10:41:52 pm
Quote from: GAMBLER;1361602

I also think you all believe Christians should somehow be perfect.
Absolutely. If you're going to portray yourself/your beliefs as a shining example of the standards to which humanity should hold itself, you need to be what you want to see in the world. We're not grasping for straws here, it's basic logic.

Quote from: GAMBLER;1361602
If she thinks witchcraft is satanic, so be it.  Get a grip people.  Some of you believe witchcraft is not satanic.  Does that make you wrong?

No, it's a patently false line of logic. Satanism and Wiccanism are not one and the same, and that's that. Such beliefs are intellectually dishonest.

Quote from: GAMBLER;1361602
Isn't there such a thing as a Christian Jew?  That's kind of a misnomer isn't it?  
Of course there's such a thing. It's called Jews for Jesus. And if such contradictions in belief exist and are widely held with some sort of credibility, I don't understand how j00wish is being "petty". Those sorts of accusations are underhanded and insulting, and I defy you to argue otherwise.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 10:44:37 pm
Forgive me but have I once mocked her religious beliefs? I don't believe I have. Again everyone is free to believe what they will and as long as they aren't shoving their beliefs down my throat I hardly think it is my concern as to what they believe or disbelieve.
 
This happened to be shoved down everyones throat. I find it interesting and in some ways has been educational otherwise I wouldn't have spent my time the last few nights reading up on the Wiccan/Pagan religions.
 
And as I have already stated if this were anyone else this thread would still exsist as an oppurtunity for people to discuss whether or not certain aspect, in this case witchcraft, is somehow wrong. The vast majority that have replied apparently have no problems with it and are as dumbfounded as I am as to what is wrong with it.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: hardwaretoad on September 01, 2008, 10:48:24 pm
@ GAMBLER, pinkshoe, et al

It's pretty rediculous to whine about "accusations of ignorance" when she demonstrated that ignorance so blatantly for all to see in her own forum. She didn't even have the EP to make a fair judgement of the alleged 'satanic behavior'. The only things she's right about is the fact that yes, she does indeed have the right as owner to post anything she wants, and to allow any type of creations on her site that she wants. She has the right to ban anyone who disagrees with her as well, but I think she ought to be prepared for a backlash from the community of Biblical proportions, if you'll pardon the expression. Accusations, indeed.

I read the posts from her site, what you see as "threats" I interpret as something else entirely. I see them simply as incredulous disbelief from members of her site that anyone in this day & age could be so woefully uninformed from hiding behind a trumped up 'holier-than-thou' personification of themselves that they trot out crap like she wrote in her initial post there.

She wears ignorance on her sleeve proudly displayed like a badge of honor by someone that's been awarded someone from fighting a mighty battle, which of course she would liken herself to, her's being the 'good fight', that of believer over evil non-believers and sinners the world over.

I saw her behavior both here & at the adult site, where it was usually one of her posts showing up first to drool & comment over the latest pixelated penis that showed up for download. We that were here and were part & parcel to her hypocrisy really expect no less from her at her own site.

So before you ask, yes, I am biased. Biased by what I witness her constant grandstanding drama create at this site and the adult. She so craves the attention as a Christian fighting her own personal Holy War I see she's willing to bring it to her own site.

Martyrdom knows no boundaries...


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Lael on September 01, 2008, 10:57:45 pm
Quote from: GAMBLER;1361949
You act as though she IS in fact incorrect or wrong.  That's a judgement.  What if she is right?  She believes what she believes and so do you, fair is fair.  Who is to say who is right or wrong?

Also, I read at her site that all are welcome but no satanic stuff.  Okay, I can deal with that and I'm sure many others can too.  


I would very much like you to explain how to live life without judgment of any kind. True, there is the majority/minority factor where society allows the majority to determine right and wrong. Been part of the human experience since we stopped living in simple family groupings back in prehistory. True, every single opinion has its own validity or none do.

In order for a determination to be made, knowledge is important. Will you equate ignorance with incorrect or wrong? The statement that witches are satanic is in fact ignorant. Let's put this in another context. I choose to use a particular style of swastika as a holy symbol. You glance at it and decide I am a Nazi. You are ignorant of alternate patterns and their meanings and can only come to an incorrect conclusion based on a social anxiety concerning a similar form of symbol. The one I am referring to is a Native American symbol and I refuse to not use it because another nation corrupted their own solar symbol with opposite facing arms from mine.

The same can be said for the pentagram in regards to satanism.

Quote

I'm sure if she feels threatened she would ban someone.  Wouldn't you if you felt threatened?  I saw the threads posted at GOS, she didn't attack anyone anymore than what they were flooding her forum with accusations of ignorance calling her 'stupid/ignorant' and 'you're going to hell' and 'you'll pay'.  Those sound threatening to me.  I don't blame her for banning people who threaten her.


*Snorts* To consider the words 'stupid' or 'ignorant' a threat is amusing. An insult yes. Threat, not by any legal standard nor meaning of those words. How generous of you to make them so. 'You're going to hell' ... well, I'll grant the merit of that one when you place the entire sentence used rather than just a snippet. As you have it, I can vaguely see it if the person is standing over her physically with fists, weapons, a cold or something more than just an internet 'verbal' impact upon her physical person.

The actual quote is: " Good day, if I'm demonic as you claim and you Abrahamic Hell exists, we'll be seeing each other soon."

Hmmm... let's consider a moment. Well, perhaps one could interpret that as a threat, were one being at the harshest level of lingual exactitude. Or, more generously, that when the two parties in question reach their ordained end (determined by their own genes, lifestyles and simple luck versus outside influences) they will share accommodations in a scenic destination lacking working air conditioning.

As for "you'll pay"... I read the entire thread line supplied on page 4 Post #67. At no time did anyone at all use those 2 and a half words. Nice! Thanks for throwing your own wood (words) onto the debate fire. You'll pay is indeed potentially threatening. Even probable as threatening. Would be a fair argument if it had in fact been used at all.

Let's take a look at your own wording, shall we?

"Flooding her forum" Do you mean her thread? Or her actual entire forum? I am puzzled. If you mean the thread... your idea of flooding and my own understanding of that word (in an internet context, naturally) must differ. Is flooding to be understood as having any amount of dissenting opinions at all? The correction of perceived ignorance is perhaps flooding? Arguing your perspective is flooding? Losing your temper is flooding? My opinion is that, concerning the thread, you need to choose your terms more carefully for debate accuracy.

If you did in fact mean the actual forum, I'll have to take your word for it that it is the case. I do not belong to it nor would I now. I know that I and my opinions, my 'judgments' based on knowledge, experience and generally accepted societal definitions would be unwelcome. On reading the single thread in question, this is proven. So, DL can exercise her rights to run her site as she clearly sees fit and I exercise mine to not participate there in any way. Neatly solved, no fuss no muss.

Quote

But this big thing is J00wish sure sounds petty to say she is wrong.  You don't know that she is wrong.  You believe she is wrong.  And she believes she is right.


As for this last section... this is the entire reason I responded. Yes, in fact, we know DL is wrong. Knowledge trumps ignorance. Belief does not equate to right. Knowledge does. DL showed her knowledge lacking. JOOwish has her knowledge correct and displays it accurately. Your use of 'petty' applies far more to you than to her. Nice way to subtly insult. I chose to emulate you. ;)

Your constant arguments through this whole thread has been based on people judging others. Your own words can't carry their weight because you are trying to judge others for their lack of restraint on your chosen ideal. The probability of DL being right is nil. Show me in no uncertain terms that she can be. You cannot. I do not accept your philosophy. For that is what it is.

No human being can function without making judgments. We make them thousands of times over the course of a day. Some are correct, some not. But this is how our society works. Judgment can be good and it can be bad. It depends on knowledge, experience and common ground to work for the best of all. Remove one of those and it fails, sometimes grandly. DL showed poor judgment. J00wish did not. Yours, Gambler, isn't looking so hot right now.

Returning now to the actual thread here... I am just sad that this kind of behavior is defended. Equality is necessary but far from present. That remains the biggest issue of our society. The overlapping of freedom of speech with freedom of religion is a tangled thorny mire. The two don't work well together. DL exercised her religious rights at the expense of others' right to speak. That cannot be denied. That is also the price of the internet. So, accept it, move on and let go.

There is this constant need in people to be right and to beat it into the heads of everyone else. We have so far to go. I am no better in that respect than anyone else. Thus my foray into this thread. I'll return to lurking now.

:lurk:


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ancienthighway on September 01, 2008, 10:59:05 pm
In addition to the InSim regulars, I see two new groups here;  those that that have come defending DLMuslow, and those that have brought the defense of their beliefs here since they can't speak freely on Muslow's site.

No matter how much one side tries to convince the other side they are wrong, the arguments fall on deaf ears because of their beliefs and convictions.  No one is going to change their beliefs because of this discussion.  All that will happen is people will continue to become outraged and quite possibly in their response say things they regret later or branch the discussion into areas that pull more people into the battle of words.

It's time to concede neither each side of this discussion will change.  Ignore them and move on.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Sam the T-man on September 01, 2008, 11:09:13 pm
@pinkshoe: I don't know if you've noticed, but some of these responses are from other Christians. We can hardly mock our own faith, can we?

She didn't pull it out of her arse, no, those beliefs about witchcraft have been around for centuries. For her to then reject any attempt to educate her on the matter, I'm afraid, is a sign of bigotry, Christian or otherwise. She suggested to ask a Christian pastor on their views - if I asked any of my three vicars, I know they'd give me a very different opinion to what she'd expect to hear. It shouldn't be the case like this, but there are churches and churches. I was just very lucky.

I'm not knocking her faith, but I do question her sincerity about it since - from what I've seen/heard - she seems to have not read her bible properly. She's judging witchcraft while refusing to probe deeper (I read the thread that was linked to here), and Jesus said to not "judge the sawdust in one person's eye while not seeing the plank in our own."

I read this fictional book years ago, about a fire elemental created by a group of satanists. It was a good example of how stories can educate people, for I learned a lot from it. The story involved a battle between Satanists and witches, whom they conjured this thing to dispose of. It drew a very clear line between the two groups; they both cast spells and hold rituals, and so in that sense yes, EA has drawn some inspiration from real-life beliefs like these.

If I had to then compare EA witches to these RL groups, I would do it like this:

White = witchcraft
Black = Satanism
Neutral = pagans

Bearing in mind that since these are caricatures, they're not meant to be that close to real life, so you won't find any sacrifices, devil worship or whatnot going on, and thus there's no reason to get into such a tizzy about it.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kimmyfrmtx on September 01, 2008, 11:18:36 pm
I don't think the witches are Satanic, I am not even sure what Satanism involves.

I think the whole problem is the way the email was worded.  If the email had been something like:

This is a Christian based site.  Some people may be offended by symbols used by the witches in the new EP.  While everyone is entitled to his/her beliefs,  postings witches and practices involved will not be allowed on this site.

Thanks for your understanding.

Then people would not be insulted being called Satan worshipers, which I think is the REAL problem here.  

We are all entitled to our beliefs.  The base of most organized religious is love, acceptance and showing by example what faith in said religion can make in life and afterlife (where applicable).


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ragingtexan on September 01, 2008, 11:26:12 pm
Quote from: kimmyfrmtx;1362162
I don't think the witches are Satanic, I am not even sure what Satanism involves.

Wikipedia for Satanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism).

No allusions to witchcraft exist within the article, which is my main argument with the premise that GAMBLER and the rest put forth - it's immediately logically false and intellectually dishonest to associate witchcraft with Satanism.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 11:26:45 pm
Which brings me to my next question.. how many of us actually understand modern day satanism? I will be the first to admit that I have no idea other than the articles I read from the 80's.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: goodstart1 on September 01, 2008, 11:28:00 pm
I GUESS HER SIMS DON'T "WOOHOO" BEFORE MARRIAGE....


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kimmyfrmtx on September 01, 2008, 11:42:18 pm
Quote from: ragingtexan;1362174
Wikipedia for Satanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism).

No allusions to witchcraft exist within the article, which is my main argument with the premise that GAMBLER and the rest put forth - it's immediately logically false and intellectually dishonest to associate witchcraft with Satanism.


Thanks for the wiki (I think).  I still don't know much more than I did before but I have a starting place to learn more about it.  The different beliefs have always fascinated me and have ask questions of many people practicing those beliefs to mixed reactions.  Some seem offended - to the other extreme, some want to "convert" me.

How to explain to a non-simmer it is just the knowledge sim in me wanting to know about everything?  Oh well, such is life.

I agree tho, it is a game.  If someone doesn't like certain aspects of it, don't play it.  I am not into green aliens "trying to blend in" to a humanoid neighborhood.  It just doesn't compute in my brain.  No one would notice a "green person with bug eyes and a tiny little nose" trying to pass itself off as human.

My friend has whole neighborhoods that are complete aliens from various planets.  

Neither of us are right or wrong, we don't try to convert each other, we just ask about how each others hood is coming along and accept that it makes the other happy.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ragingtexan on September 01, 2008, 11:43:39 pm
Quote from: kathy;1362175
Which brings me to my next question.. how many of us actually understand modern day satanism? I will be the first to admit that I have no idea other than the articles I read from the 80's.

And that's the entire issue - there's not much knowledge short of conjecture and base propaganda from Christian religions - while I admit to being totally indoctrinated by Southern Baptism in my youth, there's a staunch degree of propaganda involved in most anti-Christianity arguments, which is the crux of the debate here. My understanding of the Church of Satan (as levied forth by Anton Szandor LaVey)  it's a stone's throw from secular humanism with a handful of occultism thrown in for good measure.

From what I've read on the official doctrine, their premise for the religion seems pretty shaky and contradictory.One argument states that they more-or-less reject the dualist concept of God and Satan. On the other hand, they explicitly refer to the "Prince of Darkness." It's fairly asinine and not well-reasoned in the least, but it's no less terrible than such an argument as GAMBLER posits forth with his/her ejaculations of odd logic and reasoning.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: pinkshoe on September 01, 2008, 11:46:38 pm
Thank you for the insightful replies!
It's nice to see that you can actually post here with a concern without getting your head bashed in!
Joowish,
I didn't mean you!I totally meant Kathy!l :) I am just kidding Kathy


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 11:47:06 pm
I think tomorrow after the kids are at school I will read up on it a bit more. The media has always painted it to be something completely different and as well all know the media feeds us what they want us to believe.. regardless whether it is correct or not.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Sam the T-man on September 01, 2008, 11:48:11 pm
I've found an interesting article about witchcraft:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/646051/witchcraft


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ragingtexan on September 01, 2008, 11:49:02 pm
Quote from: pinkshoe;1362203
Thank you for the insightful replies!
It's nice to see that you can actually post here with a concern without getting your head bashed in!
Joowish,
I didn't mean you!I totally meant Kathy!l :) I am just kidding Kathy


*angrily bashes pinkshoe's head in*

How dare you try and be civil!!!!!


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 01, 2008, 11:56:01 pm
Quote from: Sadie79;1362207
I've found an interesting article about witchcraft:
 
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/646051/witchcraft

Sadie thanks for the link.. I will finish reading it in the morning
 
Quote from: ragingtexan;1362209
*angrily bashes pinkshoe's head in*
 
How dare you try and be civil!!!!!
lol Right... Lets throw stuff at me instead


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Jenna on September 02, 2008, 12:05:03 am
Quote from: kathy;1362218
lol Right... Lets throw stuff at me instead


If you insist...

*chucks the Dork at Kathy and runs like hell*


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Lael on September 02, 2008, 12:08:49 am
Quote from: ancienthighway;1362138
In addition to the InSim regulars, I see two new groups here;  those that that have come defending DLMuslow, and those that have brought the defense of their beliefs here since they can't speak freely on Muslow's site.

No matter how much one side tries to convince the other side they are wrong, the arguments fall on deaf ears because of their beliefs and convictions.  No one is going to change their beliefs because of this discussion.  All that will happen is people will continue to become outraged and quite possibly in their response say things they regret later or branch the discussion into areas that pull more people into the battle of words.

It's time to concede neither each side of this discussion will change.  Ignore them and move on.


I applaud this. Neither side nor any will ever concede. Basically what I tried to say but replacing belief with knowledge. A belief can be wrong, but knowledge rarely is and is easily corrected for accuracy.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: mizmudgie on September 02, 2008, 12:15:47 am
Quote from: kathy;1359448
As we all know in this last EP release brought Witches to our game. Some have embraced this concept while some were bothered by it. However one community member/site owner DLMulsow has taken it upon herself to declare that it embraces satantic behavior and even decided to mass email her members concerning it and ban those who disagree/question her authority.
 

 
While some of us may have found this amusing at best and incrediably absurd at the same time it has me rather curious as to what everyone else thinks.
 
I, personally, think some people need to get a grip on reality and possibly seek help.




I think your view is screwed and you need to seek help.  

Why is your opinion or anyone else's right and hers wrong? If this is her faith based decision then I say good for her, she is taking a stand on what is important to her.  Freedom of speech is just that, the right to say that she finds this content offensive.  Freedom of religion says she can bar such offensive things from her site.  Welcome to America, if it bothers you...Harden Up!!!


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Zephyrash on September 02, 2008, 12:20:48 am
I quit playing for a while and all this happens...I didn't even get the email. I must be really out of the loop...and probably banned now.

Modern Christianity drove me away with its emphasis on their Satan (and the whole gay issue) now my game is "satanic"??? Jeeze thats more than even I can tolerate.

 I enjoy the occasional CC download spree and havent wanted to delete any links to good quality stuff, thats why I had to come back here now and then for the good stuff.

I have to be honest and say I just dont know what to think anymore. You all raised such valid points of view and I'm happy this post caught my eye.
I miss being part of a lively Simming community but not so much that I want to dive back into the drama of being slammed for having a part in the DLM site.
Please know I never knew the whole christianity issue would take over the site. I know a few of you have voiced your distaste for those of us who frequented her site but it wasn't all about her religion for us, we just enjoyed the game.
I enjoy the game and the witches are really cute...and my Selfie is a cackling green sparkly witch now.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 02, 2008, 12:21:59 am
Miz did you bother reading any of this thread? If not I would suggest you do so.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ragingtexan on September 02, 2008, 12:27:17 am
Quote from: mizmudgie;1362239
I think your view is screwed and you need to seek help.  

Why is your opinion or anyone else's right and hers wrong? If this is her faith based decision then I say good for her, she is taking a stand on what is important to her.  Freedom of speech is just that, the right to say that she finds this content offensive.  Freedom of religion says she can bar such offensive things from her site.  Welcome to America, if it bothers you...Harden Up!!!

...Because it's factually incorrect? Like she said, did you even read the entire thread? What's with the jingoistic crap too?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Paden on September 02, 2008, 12:29:18 am
It seems that you have hardened up in the brain area. I was raised with religion, but also not to judge. I have no problem with Wiccans or pagans, in fact the man that performed my marriage ceremony was a gay Wiccan. She didn't even have any evidence to support her assertion that Apartment Life was indeed, Satanic, she just had a knee jerk reaction that spilled out onto the rest of the community. She can do what she likes on her site, but to openly bash the faith and orientation of others is a sad testimony of what kind of belief she actually has. It is a cartoon representation of what lots of people believe about witches, like the Wizard of Oz, complete with the green skin for the bad witches. Educate yourself about what Satanism actually is, and maybe your faith will grow. Continue to flail about like a chicken being roasted alive, and you will be aboard the phailboat with the likes of her. Besides, it's not as if she has ever practiced what she preaches at others to do, but that is something else for another time.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 02, 2008, 12:31:33 am
Quote from: Zephyrash;1362242
I quit playing for a while and all this happens...I didn't even get the email. I must be really out of the loop...and probably banned now.
 
Modern Christianity drove me away with its emphasis on their Satan (and the whole gay issue) now my game is "satanic"??? Jeeze thats more than even I can tolerate.
 
I enjoy the occasional CC download spree and havent wanted to delete any links to good quality stuff, thats why I had to come back here now and then for the good stuff.
 
I have to be honest and say I just dont know what to think anymore. You all raised such valid points of view and I'm happy this post caught my eye.
I miss being part of a lively Simming community but not so much that I want to dive back into the drama of being slammed for having a part in the DLM site.
Please know I never knew the whole christianity issue would take over the site. I know a few of you have voiced your distaste for those of us who frequented her site but it wasn't all about her religion for us, we just enjoyed the game.
I enjoy the game and the witches are really cute...and my Selfie is a cackling green sparkly witch now.
Hi Zephy... Sadly there will, undoubtly, be drama on any site. The homosexual issue is what drove a number of my close friends away from Christianity as well because they felt unwelcome and unwanted. Needless to say it isn't a pleasant feeling and as one friend described it.. Why would he choose a sexual preference that would have caused him to be shunned by his family and his community?
 
We have so many different types of people that play this game. Whether they be gay or straight, Christian or Muslim the game does not discriminate. They even gave males the ability to have babies. Witches, aliens, zombies all seem to appeal to the younger fan base while amusing, even if only for the short term, the older fan base.
 
The only discrimination I see is the ones that we impose on other people. As I stated before I could make up the most outlandish rules and say you either agree or go away. For the most part, whether people agreed or not, they wouldn't say boo and would simply grab their downloads and run back to a site where they are not going to be judged because they don't fit into what the other person views as being acceptable.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: lewisb40 on September 02, 2008, 12:40:41 am
I have enjoyed the information here. I have been educating myself also, because I really have not had interest in witchcraft and the practices. I never believe in anything that is not concrete or where my short eyesight cannot see.

I am also very happy to see that the people of this community is not closed-minded. That is how ignorance can be fought and gaining intelligence will help keep peace. Although alot of us have been raised in the Christian faith of one kind or another, people have been harmed in one way or another by fanaticsim, or extreme fundamentalism. That does not make one God-like or "treating others as one wants to be treated".  There is evil in "being to that extreme" cause you will end the lives of others for your beliefs, and thinking you are God in determining who lives or dies.

Those are the very reasons that being closed to others ways of life is insulting and also very dangerous. Centuries ago, Christians had the belief that not only witches, vampires, werewolves were evil and must be killed, but they lumped in the color of one's skin (african and danced to a harty beat) being satanic and needed to be reformed, enslaved, or killed.

I hope that people will open there minds to the diversity of all people and either accept they are humans also, respect their right to live the way they want to if they are causing no harm to others. Those who practice for evil and harm others are the ones to be persecuted and judged for the safety of humanity.

I guess what I want to say most of all, there are real evils out there to stand up against. I fear people who do that more than witches, voodoo practice, or whatever some want to label Satanist.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: J00wish on September 02, 2008, 12:41:50 am
Quote from: Zephyrash;1362242
I quit playing for a while and all this happens...I didn't even get the email. I must be really out of the loop...and probably banned now.

Modern Christianity drove me away with its emphasis on their Satan (and the whole gay issue) now my game is "satanic"??? Jeeze thats more than even I can tolerate.

 I enjoy the occasional CC download spree and havent wanted to delete any links to good quality stuff, thats why I had to come back here now and then for the good stuff.

I have to be honest and say I just dont know what to think anymore. You all raised such valid points of view and I'm happy this post caught my eye.
I miss being part of a lively Simming community but not so much that I want to dive back into the drama of being slammed for having a part in the DLM site.
Please know I never knew the whole christianity issue would take over the site. I know a few of you have voiced your distaste for those of us who frequented her site but it wasn't all about her religion for us, we just enjoyed the game.
I enjoy the game and the witches are really cute...and my Selfie is a cackling green sparkly witch now.

Zephy! *hugs* No one should be slammed for where they go. I don't think anyone should have to 'pick a side' either. These communities were supposed to be built around playing the Sims2 game... and not based what religion or lifestyle you choose. Heck, I have yet to see a Jewish Sims2 site. Hehe. Honestly I am still hoping this will continue to be an enlightening discussion on different religions, the Sims2 game and what (if anything) is above what should be in a game created for teens and above. I say to get past the name of the original author of the email and continue the discussion about Kathy's original question. :)


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: sevenslucy on September 02, 2008, 12:53:48 am
I myself am not a religious person at all, but on the other hand religion doesn't offend me at all. I don't think that Apartment Life has anything to do with Satanism.. I mean the game is rated T... Plus in the Sims 1 EA came out with Makin' Magic.

Of course she has a right to her beliefs, and it is her site. But banning people for trying to explain the facts? Now that's more than a little warped.

Oh well, whatever. I didn't go to that site much anyway. :)


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Latesco on September 02, 2008, 12:55:37 am
I just had to forward this thread to my boyfriend.  He's a militant atheist and will get a jolly old laugh out of such antics.

In my opinion 75% of Christians are misled and misinformed.  Those are the ones I try to avoid.  Based on the quote in the original post of this thread this DL person would fall into that percentile.  That's one site I will not be visiting.  It's unfortunate that she can't put aside such an outlandish judgment and just enjoy the game and the community.  That's the trap that those types of people fall into though.  They want the world to conform to their right-wing beliefs.  I predict that she will experience such a strong backlash from her stance that she'll ultimately wish she had just kept her two cents to herself.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ragingtexan on September 02, 2008, 12:59:11 am
Apartment Life = Santatist! Damn that Santa!


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: caffeinated.joy on September 02, 2008, 01:01:32 am
Freedom of Speech is wonderful, mizmudgie, but so often people forget that along with it comes the responsbility to accept the consequences for what you say. She can say what she wants, true, and we're just as free to speak our thoughts on it since, as others have said, she won't let people discuss it there.

Now, in my reading and self education regarding different belief systems and religions, Satanism is just as wide and varied as Christianity. There are alot of different paths; however, the one constant I've found is a concentration on iconoclasm and catharsis. The majority believe that if something good happens, it's because of you and not God. Thank yourself for your achievements and not any outside force. You pay for your sins, no one else does, so do what you want if it makes you happy.

Not a philosophy I want to base my life on, but there you have it. I can happily explain the most common reasons why people equate the Wiccan faith with Satanism if you all don't mind a long post from yours truly. I find different religions interesting and have read quite a bit about them. It's sad so often the subject isn't one that can be discussed without people getting offended or have it turn into a heated debate.

Zephyrash, I agree with Odessa. We're not punishing or bashing the people who frequent DL's site, we're discussing the validity or lack thereof of her argument re: Witches=Satanism.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: cavilez1987 on September 02, 2008, 01:05:08 am
Hmmmm Can you say get a life? thats just pathetic. I mean come on you really think EA would come out with a GAME based on satanic things. I dont believe in anything but in my opinion thats just a crock of s***. Grow up. The witches in the game are pathetic not even close to being satanic. lol.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Corinne on September 02, 2008, 01:06:09 am
It's sad that someone, or a group of people, have to be falsely judged. I thought this segregation thing was over.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ragingtexan on September 02, 2008, 01:12:57 am
Quote from: Daisy Stain;1362272
It's sad that someone, or a group of people, have to be falsely judged. I thought this segregation thing was over.

How is this issue even remotely related to segregation? Sure, there's something to be said about prejudice with respect to religion or lack thereof, but the accusation of segregation makes little to no sense since nobody is being divided or ostracized based on religion. I think you're being a bit presumptuous here.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: spookymuffin on September 02, 2008, 01:18:00 am
Quote from: mizmudgie;1362239
Welcome to America, if it bothers you...Harden Up!!!



And here I thought I was on the internet, a network that includes every country in the world...

Hadn't realised that I had been in America all this time. Wow.



As for commending someone because they have blind faith in something like this; it makes me very uncomfortable. What is so commendable about following something blindly until you become this irrational? I think that that kind of behaviour is deplorable! What good can come from such an attitude?

The sims2 is a game, a game with no real religious elements in it (thankfully) and for someone to see satanism in the Hollywood parody of a different religion entirely? That's a little crazy.

Also, so what if it was "satanist"? Satanism is a religion just as much as Christianity, does she ban people on her site for being any religion other than Christian?
For me I see no difference between someone who is Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Satanist, Pagan or whatever.

Che, some people need to get over themselves.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ragingtexan on September 02, 2008, 01:20:25 am
Quote from: spookymuffin;1362279
And here I thought I was on the internet, a network that includes every country in the world...

Hadn't realised that I had been in America all this time. Wow.



As for commending someone because they have blind faith in something like this; it makes me very uncomfortable. What is so commendable about following something blindly until you become this irrational? I think that that kind of behaviour is deplorable! What good can come from such an attitude?

The sims2 is a game, a game with no real religious elements in it (thankfully) and for someone to see satanism in the Hollywood parody of a different religion entirely? That's a little crazy.

Also, so what if it was "satanist"? Satanism is a religion just as much as Christianity, does she ban people on her site for being any religion other than Christian?
For me I see no difference between someone who is Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Satanist, Pagan or whatever.

Che, some people need to get over themselves.

What are you doing on the internet with your rationale and understanding?!!?! You'd better leave now.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: hillsim1 on September 02, 2008, 02:05:18 am
Wow, this is a lot of talk about only one site and the owner's beliefs...  before I take sides, let me remind you all that we are all in a society, where, believe it or not, we are entitled to believe whatever we want...  Because someone wants to take a stand against something does not mean that they should be ridiculed or talked about.  
It does not necessarily show ignorance, it could be a fear, or dislike, or just because of the teachings one has had.  Just as some are taught that witches are satanistic, others are taught the opposite.  
True that it is just a game, but each person plays it for different reasons and should be allowed to do so...  

I happen to dislike the witches, vampires, werewolves, zombies, plantsims, etc...  I just play it for the sims (people, dogs, and cats).  

Please do not be so quick to dismiss another persons views, what would happen if you were to take a stand against something, anything?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Firestar on September 02, 2008, 02:35:50 am
After my last small comment I've been reading all this with interest.  Zeph, my game is more evil than yours.  I have everything you could condemn in mine because of my writing - including a couple of your gorgeous gay guys and several witches.

But seriously, I am a witch.  I guess its kind of obvious.  I am happy with who and what I am.  I'm not a satanist.  Don't believe in him.  Do believe in evil.  I respect everyone's beliefs and also think everyone has a right to follow their own path.  I also believe that originally benevolant symbols like the pentgram and the swastika have been perverted in the eyes of the world by misuse or misrepresentation.  

However, Sims is a game... the witches are fairytale silly.  (Although I would like to point out I don't use green base...prefer to by my makeup at Lancome or Clarins).  I am not offended in any way by the representation.  If DL is and chooses to exclude part of the game for that reason it will likely be her loss.  I don't know her.  I haven't read her threads.  I'm a little sorry for anyone as narrow minded as people seem to suggest she is.  But all faiths have been persecuted at some time.  All have their good and bad elements and people. That is the way we humans are made.  We think everyone should fit in a little box and fear the different.

We should remember though that this is just a game and not get our knickers in a twist over it.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Lael on September 02, 2008, 02:38:58 am
Quote from: hillsim1;1362298
Wow, this is a lot of talk about only one site and the owner's beliefs...  before I take sides, let me remind you all that we are all in a society, where, believe it or not, we are entitled to believe whatever we want...  Because someone wants to take a stand against something does not mean that they should be ridiculed or talked about.  
It does not necessarily show ignorance, it could be a fear, or dislike, or just because of the teachings one has had.  Just as some are taught that witches are satanistic, others are taught the opposite.  
True that it is just a game, but each person plays it for different reasons and should be allowed to do so...  

I happen to dislike the witches, vampires, werewolves, zombies, plantsims, etc...  I just play it for the sims (people, dogs, and cats).  

Please do not be so quick to dismiss another persons views, what would happen if you were to take a stand against something, anything?

The object of starting all of this, if I understand Kathy correctly, was to get various opinions on this subject. When one chooses to accept something blindly and state it as a fact without bothering to check on it, it is in fact ignorance. It cannot be explained away as anything else. Just because you are taught something, especially within religious context, does not make it true. When you take the time to examine and study a subject, within and outside of religious dogma, then you can make a claim that is not in ignorance.

To make the claim that someone is demonic, well, I cannot give credence to such a person's ability to make statements on another religion. No more so than when that same individual refuses correction on incorrect assumptions made in ignorance of fact. I would be doing myself a disservice and society by simply saying nothing. They will still have the same opinion, no doubt, as they did before I stuck my long winded foot in it.

To accept blindly, without study or careful thought, that is the very essence of ignorance. This is the way that tyrants and genocides have gained their power within the world through the ages. It is how books are burned and ideas stagnate because they fall outside of religious dogma.

While each is entitled to their own preferred flavor of worship, to do so in a manner that is disrespectful of others is hardly acceptable. When your beliefs become an infliction and pain to those outside of yours, why are we to say nothing? You mention taking a stand. This is exactly what is being done. Yet you take it back with the other hand. We shouldn't be taking a stand against what said and done because it is her right to do what she did. That is true. And now we exercise our rights to discuss and disagree with those same actions. You cannot have it both ways. It applies equally or not at all.

This isn't dismissing views, by the way. It is disagreeing on the foundation of knowledge and its application. At the very least, it is discussing plain rudeness in expression. The original words used were meant to be negative and insulting. Kind of hard to just swallow that without needing some Heimlich. Silence = condoning. Therefor I am not silent.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Enayla on September 02, 2008, 04:54:24 am
I feel a little like embellishing what I said earlier.

First of all, I do not know DLMulsow, I have no quarrel with her and I’m not going to judge her based on what I’ve heard here or what others might say. I’ll go ahead and make my mental sketch from what I’ve read of what she has said instead, which is her public announcement and then later her replies to the people discussing the issue with her in the specific thread on her forum.

Having said that, I’ve been enough amused by her reaction that I’ve told my friends about it and some have even read her letter – I would have done the same if it had been a Wiccan forum forbidding the use of Santa-imagery due to Christianity, because that would have been just about as ridiculous. It is true that she has the right to kick whoever she likes out of her forum but with that, it’s also true that they have the right to speak openly about their opinions of her elsewhere, and that the rest of us can talk about the issue as well. It’s only fair. There’s obviously no room to discuss it with her so this is the only venue.

I’ve run a couple of forums in my days, and though I’m not a Christian, I’ve never once kicked anyone out for showing a picture of baby Jesus or daring to defend their beliefs to me.

I’ve laughed a bit about what DLMulsow has done, since I first read it, but I understand that it’s also genuinely upsetting for those that were kicked out – it sucks to find out that someone you admired has such a narrow view of the world.

At the end of the day, what happened was as absurd as someone deciding that a teletubby is gay because it has a handbag, and just as insulting and belittling to every party involved… not to mention the loss of respect DLMulsow will suffer from the incident.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: jamesabrown1 on September 02, 2008, 05:16:49 am
The whole thing IS laughable MoronStyle7. Heaven help us all, we as a species have practiced hatred and bigotry in the name of whatever god we choose to worship, if any, since we crawled out of our caves. Especially since we decide that we are the sole authority on the subject and everyone else must believe as we do. We still do this, and in the future will continue to do it. For the record, I am Christian. However it is just a GAME! I do think the evil robot thing is a pretty good idea. Bwah-ha-ha. Malevolent servos, cool.


Title: My POV...
Post by: rachel631 on September 02, 2008, 05:23:07 am
Just thought I'd add a POV myself... to put it in perspective, I'm a Christian too. My understanding of satanism is that there are two types. De Vries satanism is a form of early humanism which decried the power of the church and focused on the power of mankind to improve one's own condition. Then there's satanism like you see in films, which I find hard to believe actually exists, except when you have teenagers trying to be shocking. Which is really quite sad (in the loser sense of the word).

My understanding of witchcraft is that it also falls into two categories. Wiccanism revolves around nature worship and the sacred feminine, and involves various acts including strict food laws and solstace worship. Witchcraft practised by teenagers through 'the little book of spells' is an attempt to gain control over one's life, but uses none of the spiritual aspects of Wiccanism. Which is really quite sad (in the tragic sense) because it attracts people who are lost and want to control their lives, but are never going to manage it that way.

Anyway, that's my two cents. This site host just seems a little ignorant. Which is a shame, because it makes everyone think that religious Christians are stupid, judgemental people. We're not all nuts, honest!


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: jamesabrown1 on September 02, 2008, 05:37:10 am
My experience is, the nuts usually are the ones who take silly stands either for against a subject armed with very little, if any, knowledge of the subject itself. However, I have often been called a complete lunatic, so perhaps not all nuts are of the religious kind.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Jake Lucas on September 02, 2008, 05:38:24 am
Rar, I am a member of that site and I may cancel my membership now, I am neither satanic or christian, the game has good witches as well as bad and nuteral, and what about vampires, werewolves and zombies?  Don't they come under satanic as well?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Mimi52861 on September 02, 2008, 05:44:24 am
My 2 cents is that this is a game and meant to be FUN.  If one does not like the contents of the game, they don't have to play it.
 
I personally feel that getting all uptight about the witches in AL is a bit extreme, seeing as we've had vampires, zombies and werewolves for some time now.
 
I don't see any references to "Satan" or "Satanic" worshiping in this game, but then I'm not a paranoid extremist that sees evil in everything & everyone either.
 
I've been upset with EAxis for several things, SecuROM is at the top of the list, but "Satanic" game content doesn't even make the list!


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Tomkat on September 02, 2008, 08:53:42 am
Thats ridiculous -
and it discriminates against real life witches (wiccans etc) by calling them satanic.

Besides... those fanatics that bash "witches/wizards" like sims now, and harry potter etc -> I hope they dont read fairytales to their kids, or were read them as children. Since every fairytale would also be satanic by comparison.
I pity the fools.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: NikonSnow on September 02, 2008, 10:50:37 am
Quote from: kimmyfrmtx;1362162
Some people may be offended by symbols used by the witches in the new EP.


Which symbols, the sparkles or the flying?

(Edited to add this comment was completely facetious. Because fairytales in video games are apparently Serious Buisness. :happy8:)


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: shc on September 02, 2008, 11:48:11 am
I would like to state from the outset that I am Wiccan.

When I first started reading this thread I had reserved judgement because I thought that maybe, just maybe people may have taken something this DL had said out of proportion.

As I understand it from information on this thread, DL, a confessed christian and fansite administrator had asked in a post/email that with the coming release of AL and it's inclusions of witches that only non-satanic content for/about this to be posted on her site in respect of her beliefs, (which I thought was reasonable). In this post she uses up-side down crosses and pentagrams as an example of such.

When I read that I thought well she is not saying that AL witches or wiccans are satanic, she is probably just talking about cc, pics and stories with a satanic theme which people may be inspired to make because there are witches in AL, and maybe some overly sensitive people had probably thus jumped to the wrong conclusions. Although the mention of the pentagram did make me raise an eyebrow, but as I have come across people before who had not realised the difference between upright and upside-down pentagrams this it didn't raise my hackles. I thought surely if/when someone explained the difference the matter would've then cleared up, as I have found it has done so in the past.

As I read further I soon learned that people had in fact tried to explain this difference to her and she gotten narkyand defensive and had started banning people.

When I read that I thought that although it that was a bit extreme maybe the people trying to explain said differences to her went the wrong way about it, possibly in an somewhat accusitory and/or aggresive tone. I know if I was 'attacked' that way I could possibly become defensive and overact saying and/or doing things that I may later regret.

When I came to the post with the link to the pic of the deleted thread mentioned, I was both disappointed and saddened when I read the last bit of her first post where she lumps all witches together and calls them satanist. Not only is it ignorant and narrow-minded, but it is purposefully ignorant and narrow-minded which is even worse in my opinion.

Having said that, I would like to make something known. According to christian beliefs, the only true god is their God, meaning of course that any other diety/entity is a false god. Christians also believe that these 'false gods' are nothing more then disguises used by the devil to trick people into worshipping the wrong god and therefore into sin. Hence how witches/pagans came to be viewed as satan-worshippers, because we worship false gods, ie satan.

So in a sense, according to DL beliefs witches, be they bad ones or good ones are satanists. But then so are buddhist, or any of the native tribal/pagan religions across the globe. In fact saving ignorant savages souls from the devil was one of the excuses europeans used to themselves when they were invading...... oops I mean colonising the rest of the world. These days the western world just uses Democracy and the right to Freedom as an excuse to invade...... oops I mean liberate other nations.

I should note here that Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the same god, they just can't agree on the right way to worship him. (just in case someone ask why I did not mention them).

Back to subject.

As I am a firm believer in respecting a person beliefs (even if I think they are totally wrong and/or idiotic) and although it pains me to say this given my own personal beliefs but if DL believes witchcraft in all it's forms are satanic due to her beliefs and deems it unsuitable subject matter for her site then indeed she has the right to do so. Furthermore if she wishes that any discussion/debate of this matter to be removed off her site then she has that right too.

Sadly the ideal of respecting and tolerating other people's beliefs and notions sometimes also means respecting and tolerating people who do not respect and tolerate yours.

By all means I don't expect anyone to agree with with me on this (I wish I could *grumbles to self* damn moral compass) and you are all free to critique(bag) her beliefs and choices as much as you want in alternate sites/forums such as this thread. Because if she has the right to demand we respect her view and demands on her site, then we have the right to express our views where we are allowed, and to have them respected as well.

There is one thing I do believe that she did that she shouldn't have done and had no right to do, and that is sending a mass-email to members of her site stating her request as well as her position on witchcraft in such a horrible tone. If she wanted to inform people of her preferences regarding material put on her site she should have put a notice up where people can see it when they enter that site or put a thread about it in it's 'Site News'. But hounding her members all the way back to where they live (figuritively speaking) and shoving it in their face is not the wisest idea, particularly considering she doesn't know each individuals faith/beliefs and especially if she had wanted people to be considerate of her in this matter.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Pixflix on September 02, 2008, 11:59:22 am
Hi gang,
I am a member over at Sim Antics(drpf)
Zep is right that there is a few creators who have blacklisted anyone from the DlM forum.
My own experience is I did try to give the creator there wish yet I was still put out to dry and very publicly humiliated over the fact that I posted something on her site over there own issue with Muslow that had nothing to do with me so much for tolerance and compromise lol
My experience with Dl has been someone who has nurtured her creators, has been kind and supportive towards myself and others she doesn't put up with rudeness or anyone criticizing her members or there creations(if you saw the hair I created for one of my sims you know she was protecting me from the assault of wth is that?)
It's sad that everyone involved had such a strong reaction when there really is no way to resolve the issue since everyone believes there right it just has lead to a  big fall out from it
I won't speak badly of Dl or her religious beliefs
It is her forum if she compromised her beliefs then that forum wouldn't be fun for her.It's her faith and she isn't going to back down from her faith even if she is ridiculed or loses some of her friends over it
I wish there was more understanding and tolerance for all involved which I seriously doubt will happen.This is just a game but there is so much disagreement over everything rather you share a file or share a belief its a constant battleground that it really doesn't seem worth being part of the community


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: jamesabrown1 on September 02, 2008, 12:14:21 pm
I've been on this thread several times now, and I think nearly every point of view has been expressed, in several different ways. Perhaps it is time to declare that the horse is dead, and we should stop beating it.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: J00wish on September 02, 2008, 12:22:34 pm
Hi drpf! In regards to the topic posted, was anyone banned for being on DL's site for their affiliation with her based on the religious statements? I don't want this to be a file sharing issue as Kathy is trying to be as neutral as possible. I can also tell you that no creators have been banned here for that. They are more than welcome to share their creations as long as they follow the rules set forth on this site. :)

I am glad that you have not had any issues with DL. I have been fighting to keep this thread from becoming a bashing of her. She has every right to her beliefs. But people also have a right to sound off on their opinion of the email and their personal feelings on the AL EP, witchcraft and whether or not it crosses the line.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: AlbinoBambi on September 02, 2008, 12:31:20 pm
Ok, I'm too lazy to read the whole thread, but I think somebody is 'slightly' overreacting.
I'm a Christian, and I don't believe witchcraft is right, but I do believe in people having enough sense to choose what they want to believe, accept and 'use'.

Also, I don't think banning members is the way to convert people, it's more likely to scare them away. There is a line between telling people about your faith, and acting like your church and faith is the only right thing in the whole wide world.

But that's just me.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Sam the T-man on September 02, 2008, 12:35:39 pm
Quote
Christians also believe that these 'false gods' are nothing more then disguises used by the devil to trick people into worshipping the wrong god and therefore into sin. Hence how witches/pagans came to be viewed as satan-worshippers, because we worship false gods, ie satan.

Excuse me, but this is the first I've heard about this. I've always been taught (as a Christian) to respect others' beliefs, no matter what they are. It may have been another of Constantine's smear tactics, but that's definitely not what was originally believed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong :)


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Tenshii~Akari on September 02, 2008, 01:18:06 pm
Quote from: Sadie79
Quote
Christians also believe that these 'false gods' are nothing more then disguises used by the devil to trick people into worshipping the wrong god and therefore into sin. Hence how witches/pagans came to be viewed as satan-worshippers, because we worship false gods, ie satan.
Excuse me, but this is the first I've heard about this. I've always been taught (as a Christian) to respect others' beliefs, no matter what they are. It may have been another of Constantine's smear tactics, but that's definitely not what was originally believed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong


Sadie, the quote is's true... this was something that's in the Old Testament of the Bible.  Basically "Thou shall not put other gods before me" in the Ten Commandments.  

Hey... as long as we're not believing in and worshiping other deities other than Him, ("we're" in the meaning of Christian believers, or however you want to take it) it's okay to know about them and understand how other people worship.  I see nothing wrong with the knowledge of the fact, and I do hold respect for the other religions.  We just all have different preferences is all.  :angel:


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: MoronStyle7 on September 02, 2008, 01:31:35 pm
Each person believe anything he wants to believe, but he (or she, in our case) shouldnt force other people to believe his "rubbish" thoughts, whom may not be truth, I dont believe Maxis are group of satanic peple and they developed gameplay for that.

How could this be satanic nor evil? whatever.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Sam the T-man on September 02, 2008, 01:47:01 pm
@Tenshii - I know about that commandment, but does that necessarily equate religions like Buddhism with devil worship? My knowledge of such a thing involves knowingly worshipping the devil, which I don't see in Buddhism, for instance.

Mind you, if I'm honest, ten commandments aside, the Old Testament raises a lot of questions that are best saved for the right people, not here.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ancienthighway on September 02, 2008, 03:11:21 pm
Quote from: MoronStyle7;1362842
...his "rubbish" thoughts...


This I take exception to!  Just who the f*** are you to say that one's persons thoughts, beliefs, or whatever are "rubbish"?  Just because they don't happen to coincide with your beliefs?  

Ignorance, or the lack of knowledge, and stubborness in refusing to listen and try to understand others viewpoints may have started this whole debate, but what a person believes in and their conviction to that belief is by no means rubbish.  I don't care what a persons religion is on this point.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: caffeinated.joy on September 02, 2008, 03:21:49 pm
Please calm down, ok? I've been very happy with the way everyone has been keeping this a friendly discussion. Don't turn it into a war now.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: ancienthighway on September 02, 2008, 03:33:28 pm
Tell me to calm down, but allow someone who made an inflammatory post to go without warning?  

Does this mean that it's okay to just belittle other peoples beliefs if they don't agree with you?  Isn't that in part what this thread is about?


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: J00wish on September 02, 2008, 03:34:45 pm
Thank you, Joy. Regardless of your religious beliefs, this thread is first and foremost trying to discuss religious tolerance. Everyone has their right to believe (or not believe) what they want without misinformation and insults being tossed about. There will be no flaming just because your beliefs are different. I believe that's what started this in the first place, intentional or not.

I have really enjoyed reading everyone's point of view on this. Regardless of the side you came in on, I want to thank you for being civil and sharing your views. I've learned a lot over the past few days and for this I am thankful that the thread was allowed to thrive. I am hoping the information given will give people a new understanding about other religions and perhaps open some minds. We're a site filled with many walks of life and it's one of my favorite things about InSIM. Through this site I have met so many wonderful people. And now I am learning and growing more as a person. Let's keep that in mind before clicking the Reply button.

ancienthighway: I believe her response was in general and not aimed at any one person, just as mine is.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: caffeinated.joy on September 02, 2008, 03:50:03 pm
Yes, ancienthighway, it was in general, as I've noticed more than one person has started to get rather hot under the collar.

First and foremost we all should remember that, even though we speak English in this forum, it's not everyone's first language, and often we'll read things that can be construed as an insult but wasn't intended as such. I know I've been guilty of that myself. We're talking about a subject that's very personal to everyone, and we all beleive we are in the right. It's potentially inflammatory and ripe for debate, but, for the most part it's been a friendly conversation about differing viewpoints. I'm proud of us all for proving we don't have to agree to see eye to eye.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: trl on September 02, 2008, 06:20:17 pm
*head desk*
This all started over posting of pictures or downloads that may cross the line/push the limit for what she wants at the site....and snowballed out of control at warp speed. It wasn't about anyone being unwelcome, just inapproprieate content. No kidding. Nuff said on that from me.

As far as the question that is the topic of this thread, I am Catholic and didn't think much of about the witches in the game. I felt no different about the witches than I do the vamps and zombies. Now that this question has been put out there, I have thought about it more. Christian belief, as many have stated, is that things of an occult nature makes many uncomfortable.

As far as Sim~Antics policy, it is fair enough to accept that content of the uploads or pictures above pg13 are not considered appropriate. As it being Christian based, things of an occult nature would follow suit, as an inverted cross, would perhaps be offensive to some members and the site owner. Other than that, the members carry on as they do here. Play the game, share with friends and have fun.

As many know, I am active here as well as at Sim~Antics and GoS. For those that feel uncomfortable, as far as what others think of them because of where they post, I feel I must say this. I have never been treated any different because of where I choose to post and get my shiny stuff nor who I am friends with. Not by DL, Kathy, Nymphy, Nouk nor any of the members of these sites. I am treated based on how I carry myself and interact on the boards. Period.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: GAMBLER on September 02, 2008, 06:25:43 pm
Quote from: hardwaretoad;1362123
@ GAMBLER, pinkshoe, et al

I saw her behavior both here & at the adult site, where it was usually one of her posts showing up first to drool & comment over the latest pixelated penis that showed up for download. We that were here and were part & parcel to her hypocrisy really expect no less from her at her own site.


ROFL I guess Christians aren't allowed to like sex?  Just because she was a member at an adult forum doesn't make her any less a Christian.  Her friends KNOW she  spoke out against the porn that was being posted there.  

Wasn't the 'adult' site just a sim site for adult sim material at first?  Now it's just porn.

I've seen several posts that mock her for having been a member at the adult site.  So?  Christians have 'woohoo' too.  Where do you think more Christians come from?

SHC, your post is the most informative, non-invasive and easily read post in this entire thread.  Being from South Texas I am familiar with your description of her Christian beliefs and it sounded appropriate, so I asked her.

She said yes about the witchcraft thing.  I didn't ask about Buddism or anything.  She also said that witches from the game will be okay and so will recolored stuff and whatnot, just not satanic stuff posted on her site.  It looks like she has been somewhat misunderstood on what is allowed there.

I agree she could have worded the email differently to avoid offending some people, but she didn't.  How long does a person have to pay?

Bottom line is that tolerance goes both ways.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: zaleth on September 02, 2008, 06:26:22 pm
Well I think she is a bit one sided and there a lot of us Real Witches out here, Yes I am Wiccan, however, this is only a game and I suppose she bans Halloween to since that allows children to dress up like witches and demons :P  She needs to get her facts straight since being a witch has nothing to do with Satan or evil.......

I would like to add why did she not post about vampires, zombies or werewolves?  By her words they would also be lumped in with the witches.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: GAMBLER on September 02, 2008, 06:32:54 pm
I guess you will never know how she really feels since she is banned from here and cannot defend herself.  I haven't seen any threads like this at her site either.  There are no threads where people talk down to each other, it's pretty much just a nice social atmosphere.  Maybe if you are a Wiccan or whatever you could go there and ask if you're welcome without starting some kind of fight or public issue then you would know.  All I know is she told me that 'everyone was welcome, but satanic stuff was not'.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: trl on September 02, 2008, 07:25:59 pm
Quote from: Pixflix;1362697
Hi gang,
I am a member over at Sim Antics(drpf)
Zep is right that there is a few creators who have blacklisted anyone from the DlM forum.
My own experience is I did try to give the creator there wish yet I was still put out to dry and very publicly humiliated over the fact that I posted something on her site over there own issue with Muslow that had nothing to do with me so much for tolerance and compromise lol
My experience with Dl has been someone who has nurtured her creators, has been kind and supportive towards myself and others she doesn't put up with rudeness or anyone criticizing her members or there creations(if you saw the hair I created for one of my sims you know she was protecting me from the assault of wth is that?)
It's sad that everyone involved had such a strong reaction when there really is no way to resolve the issue since everyone believes there right it just has lead to a  big fall out from it
I won't speak badly of Dl or her religious beliefs
It is her forum if she compromised her beliefs then that forum wouldn't be fun for her.It's her faith and she isn't going to back down from her faith even if she is ridiculed or loses some of her friends over it
I wish there was more understanding and tolerance for all involved which I seriously doubt will happen.This is just a game but there is so much disagreement over everything rather you share a file or share a belief its a constant battleground that it really doesn't seem worth being part of the community


Hi drpf - very well said. (I was not aware about the blacklisted comment or what you went through.  Again, I have not experienced this myself.)


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Zephyrash on September 02, 2008, 07:29:38 pm
Hi trl and drpf!!
I'm so happy to see how so many of you are taking the time to be informative of how you believe and the paths you have chosen as far as your personal Faith. It is unfortunate that so many are not reading anything but the first few posts and perhaps a few at the end and then going on about DL's choices.
 We know. We get it. She f**ked up her terminology, who around here hasn't since we all speak english differently.
She used her technology at hand to make a stand with an email, we all use this internet differently...
Can we finally close this and open a fresh discussion about faith and the way we play? DL has been a friend for quite a while and its not fair to make fun of her as an opening line.
 Momma would tell me not to make fun of the stupid people and I'd say I'm not making fun of them... I'm just pointing out they are stupid!
I haven't checked to see if I'm banned at DL's site and I havent talked to her about this, but my game has not accepted jesus christ as its personal savior nor does it dance skyclad or invoke the goddess.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 02, 2008, 07:39:18 pm
Zephy I will do that as soon as I figure out what to write.. blonde moment.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Lael on September 02, 2008, 07:45:33 pm
Quote from: GAMBLER;1363312
I guess you will never know how she really feels since she is banned from here and cannot defend herself.  I haven't seen any threads like this at her site either.  There are no threads where people talk down to each other, it's pretty much just a nice social atmosphere.  Maybe if you are a Wiccan or whatever you could go there and ask if you're welcome without starting some kind of fight or public issue then you would know.  All I know is she told me that 'everyone was welcome, but satanic stuff was not'.


And that is the sticking point. Wiccan stuff would be unwelcome because it has been declared Satanic. So, how do you reconcile that view? This is why people are upset. This is why the re-education attempt that ended badly with hurt feelings all around. Everyone is NOT welcome under those conditions.

As for defending herself... she did. Our opinions and conversations here have no meaning to or for her. She chose her course of action. Rather publicly, I might add. I refuse to be chastised for discussing that behavior and its possible causes. It goes both ways. Someone expressed that they would have apologized for rudeness, but will not have that chance because they are now banned from there. Everything has been fair, regardless of how things are expressed here.

People tend to give what they get. I have seen plenty of talking down coming from your posts. Let us not forget 'petty' being tossed around by you. Sadly, with this kind of topic and the deep emotions attached to it, people will get rather rigid in manner and language. It is the nature of it and simple enough to counter. Don't participate.

:saber:


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: papa_di on September 02, 2008, 07:59:18 pm
Quote from: zaleth;1363299
Well I think she is a bit one sided and there a lot of us Real Witches out here, Yes I am Wiccan, however, this is only a game and I suppose she bans Halloween to since that allows children to dress up like witches and demons :P  She needs to get her facts straight since being a witch has nothing to do with Satan or evil.......

I would like to add why did she not post about vampires, zombies or werewolves?  By her words they would also be lumped in with the witches.


I have a friend who claims to be a Wiccan, is it true that Wiccans worship the earth?

And if you can make magic, can you make me rich (lots of money,not a person named rich) Or like have Halle Berry as my girlfriend. PLEASE!!!! LOL

I've bitten a lot of people I'm not evil. Oh wait, Evil Rat thing. Sorry

I kinda thought of joining that religion where you get all those virgins when you die, Oh wait, what if their all men............Nevermind


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: raynesonyx on September 02, 2008, 08:29:06 pm
So I decided to post an exact copy of the email that was sent out copied straight from my email account at Yahoo so that the speculation of what was said and or wasn't said will end... So here it is for those of you who did not receive it.
Quote

The following is an e-mail sent to you by an administrator of "DLMulsow's
Sim~Antics". If this message is spam, contains abusive or other comments
you find offensive please contact the webmaster of the board at the
following address:

(I deleted the email address here so she does not receive hate e-mails :shh: )
Include this full e-mail (particularly the headers).

Message sent to you follows:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THE NEWEST EP, APARTMENT LIFE, HAS INCLUDED WITCHES AND WITCHCRAFT IN THE
GAME'S PLAY.

I'm not especially excited about the witchery as satanic materials are not
allowed on this site. I hope everyone will be responsible with their photos
and story material regarding this new feature.

Juvinile hyjinks will be allowed, but apparently evil and satanic content
won't be allowed. If you are unsure of the material you want to post, don't
be afraid to ask.

I have not been able to review the new EP yet so as I get opportunity,
discussion may insue on the topic.

DLMULSOW'S SIM~ANTICS IS A CHRISTIAN BASED SITE AND DOES NOT TOLERATE
SATANIC MATERIAL AND/OR CONTENT.

Thanks for your patience and understanding in this matter as I want to keep
this site a friendly place for ALL to come.

Sincerely,
DLMulsow


--
Thanks, DLMulsow


So there it is do with it as you will. I just wanted the email to go on the record here so that you could read it for yourself then decide first hand rather than hear it filtered through others. The only change I made was to remove her email address to stop hate emails.
:lurk:


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Zephyrash on September 02, 2008, 08:33:51 pm
Thanks Mz. Onyx! and *hugs* Kathy!


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: GAMBLER on September 02, 2008, 09:05:42 pm
Quote from: Zephyrash;1363360
I haven't checked to see if I'm banned at DL's site and I havent talked to her about this, but my game has not accepted jesus christ as its personal savior nor does it dance skyclad or invoke the goddess.


I'm guessing she accepts you just the way you are then?  If you've been friends for a long time and you are a creator there then I guess she DOES accept everyone regardless of their beliefs and the assumptions made here are not grounded.

I like the stuff you make there, by the way.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: EKozski on September 02, 2008, 09:09:08 pm
I like his stuff too.

I downloaded, Hank

That outfit he's wearing........OY! lol


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: Paden on September 02, 2008, 09:16:27 pm
Now that we've discussed this topic to death, there are more important things to deal with. Therefore, this thread has seen its last post. Thank you, and good night, Mrs. Calabash.


Title: Apartment Life = Satantist?
Post by: kathy on September 02, 2008, 09:30:02 pm
We have opened a thread here (http://www.insimenator.org/showthread.php?p=1363517#post1363517) for people that actually wish to discuss the religious aspect, their views as to how it pertains to the game and the like. Feel free to discuss further things there as I have stipulated in my post.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
and I dont care if I make sense tonight.. I'm tired.


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