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1  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / Paysite Discussion Thread on: August 20, 2007, 06:11:09 pm
Please look at the link I gave a few posts above - it is an announcement on the EA site that the EULA of the Content Manager is now the official EULA for the game itself and all expansions.

And it does, in fact, have all the "non commercial" references removed.
It also makes no reference to sharing files - but it didn't before, either.

Are paysites now legal?  That is misleading, since they never were illegal - a EULA is a two-party contract, not a law.  Before this, you could validly make the claim that paysites were in violation of the EULA, or guilty of Breach of Contract.  Now you can not.

Do you (I am using "you" in the collective sense) have to agree to the new EULA?  Not now, not until they actually put it into an expansion pack that you install - and they have said that it is too late to include this new EULA in the next expansion.

However, what you do in regards to the EULA has no bearing on what other people do - once again, a EULA is a two party contract, not a public law.  What I mean is that I am not bound in any way by a EULA that someone else accepts, only by a EULA that I accept myself.

The idea that Maxis/EA has any responsibility for user-made content is also false - they allow people to make and distribute it, but they clearly say that they do not endorse it, and you are supposed to include that statement on your website.

They even take it further, by putting up that warning notice when you start the game saying that the custom content you have installed could damage your game, and you must purposely click on the button to allow custom content to stay in your game at that point.  Basically this amounts to another contract, relieving them of any responsibility for custom content of any kind, pay or free.
2  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / Paysite Discussion Thread on: August 18, 2007, 06:00:59 pm
Yes, EA is pretty much trying to keep themselves OUT of this, they certainly don't want to become responsible for paysites (or any Sims2 fansites for that matter)
3  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / Paysite Discussion Thread on: August 18, 2007, 04:41:44 pm
For those who think the EULA change isn't "official", or only applies to the Content Manager, please see this:
http://bbs.thesims2.ea.com/community/bbs/messages.php?threadID=6134fe0a997bb1d12255fce7195a7cbd&directoryID=2&startRow=1&openItemID=item.2,item.61,item.104,item.41,item.127,item.23#6f4e9dbfcebd6df26b64b9a71d301072
4  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / Paysite Discussion Thread on: August 14, 2007, 04:20:50 pm
Judging from the responses I have seen on the threads on S2C, for many anti-paysite people it was obviously not really the argument, nor anything they really cared about anyway.  It was just a convienient way to make themselves look legitimate, as if they were upholding the law, and protecting the "community".  The truth is coming out now.
5  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / Paysite Discussion Thread on: August 14, 2007, 01:14:14 pm
Not surprisingly, Maxis/EA is saying "We don't have a problem with paysites, stop bothering us about it."

What this does is put to rest any arguments that paysites are somehow illegal.

Will it stop the pirates?  Certainly not, but I must admit I find it funny to see everyone who used to treat the EULA as if it was the Holy Grail suddenly doing a complete 180...
6  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / Paysite Discussion Thread on: July 27, 2007, 04:27:55 pm
Quote from: sakrayami;839654
I am a bit surprised that creators of skins and other CC support paysites when they create for free themself? Could anyone enlighten me?


I create free Sims2 content, but I am against the whole anti-paysite thing, so I wanted to answer this too.

As for the EULA and legal agruments, Kathy has already answered that much better than I could.

Anyway, I do NOT support paysites simply because I am not in favor of the anti-paysite stance.  I personally don't look at them as anything more than simply a Sims2 site.

What I do support is respect for the content creators, no matter what site they create for, and no matter if I approve of how they choose to distribute their items.  To me, the only right thing to do is to respect their wishes - if they say "do not put this on the Exchange", I won't.  Likewise if they say "do not redistribute at all", "do not recolor", or even "you must subscribe to get this item", I will respect that as well.

The second thing I strongly support is the right of people to choose - I personally choose not to subscribe to Sims2 sites, nor pay a donation fee to get a donation item from a free site.  But neither I, nor anybody else, has a right to make that descision for other people.

I can't honestly support these two principles, and also be anti-paysite.
7  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / What was your 1st EVER sim called? on: July 15, 2007, 04:50:18 pm
My first "created" family, both in Sims1 and in Sims2 was the Normull family.

There was the father, Gnott
His wife, Shirley
Son, Willie B.
and daughter, May B.

Also their cousin, Izzie, lived with them in Sims1, but I skipped him in the Sims2 version.

The Sims2 version still survives in my game, but the kids have both grown up and married.
8  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / Paysite Discussion Thread on: July 14, 2007, 08:52:56 pm
Quote from: PegasusDiana;823243
Who knows how much EA can say they lost with 20 million players around the world.


Unless they can somehow prove that people didn't buy the game or it's expansion packs because of paysites, they can't really claim to have "lost" anything, can they?

Here is a question for everyone, no matter what side you're on:

Suppose Maxis/EA comes out and says paysites are OK?  
Yes, I know about that letter from the EA customer relations, which really doesn't say anything (typical PR letter).   If you look on Sims File Vault you will find an almost identical letter posted to Maxis/EA, and an identical response, that they got several years ago.

I mean an official statement from Maxis/EA.

Would anybody, on any side of the issue, change their mind?

Or, alternately, if they say that paysites are not OK, and must be closed - again, would any of you change your minds?

I really don't think anyone would change their thinking, in either case.

I also don't see any possible benefit to Maxis/EA getting involved in this one way or the other.  I don't mean the "community", or "the anti-paysite movement", I mean Maxis/EA - because that will be how they come at this.
9  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / Paysite Discussion Thread on: June 26, 2007, 07:15:44 am
The reason I mentioned about the EULA is because the pirate movement uses that as it's basic argument against paysites.

You're right, from our end this is all about choices.

My main complaint against the pirates is that they wish to remove choices from us if they don't approve of those choices.

I choose to let Maxis worry about their EULA and any violations of it, they have a well paid legal team and they certainly don't need my help, nor anyone elses.

I choose to respect the time and effort that someone has put into their creations, whatever their reason for doing it, whether or not I like the end result, and whether or not I approve of they way they want to distribute it.
If they don't want me to have it without paying, then I won't have it.

I myself choose not to pay to download Sims items - but other people are capable to decide for themselves if they do wish to pay for something and who they want to donate to, they don't need me or anyone else to decide for them.
10  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / Paysite Discussion Thread on: June 24, 2007, 04:11:08 pm
You are making the assumption that paysites are taking money out of Maxis' pockets...

I would be more inclined to think that those people who can afford to subscribe to paysites can also afford to buy every expansion and "stuff" pack that comes out.

My real point is that you can't selectively use part the EULA as a reason to crusade against paysites while ignoring the rest of it.

No matter how you interpret the EULA, it (like all EULA's) is designed to protect the financial interests of Maxis/EA, it is NOT designed nor intended to protect the rights of the "end user" of the game.

Please don't take any of this to mean that I am not in favor of free sites, I certainly am.  Everything I have made is available to download for free, and if you read my "terms of use" it pretty much says "take this stuff and do whatever you like with it".  It's just that whenever I see the word "EULA" pop up as a reason to be anti-paysite, it makes my eyes glaze over.  If you are against paysites, fine - but don't pretend to be defending the EULA when you really don't support it at all.

In any case, I too fear the end result as being that paysites will be shut down, and free sites along with them too.  As BeosBoxBoy points out, Maxis can't legally do anything else.

Either that or they may just let it go until Sims3 is released, but not allowing any user-made content for it at all.

Just as they have done with "Sim Stories".
11  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / Paysite Discussion Thread on: June 23, 2007, 05:44:33 pm
Another point I wanted to bring up is this -

Everybody is fond of quoting the part of the Eula which says you can't sell custom content for the game, which it does in fact say.  Although to be honest, it would be difficult to prove, legally, that most paysites are in fact selling the "content" as opposed to simply selling access to the site, except those few sites that do charge by the piece.  

However, everyone convieniently ignores the part of the EULA that says you are not allowed to "disassemble" or "reverse engineer" the game contents.

Simply put, this means you can't pick-apart the game files in a hex-=editor or by other means, to see how they are put together.  Without doing this, NONE of the game editing tools like SimPE or any of the mesh import/export tools would be possible.

Now, like paysites, this is an area that Maxis/EA chooses to look the other way on - but, the truth is that the vast majority of Sims2 sites, whether free, or pay, are in violation of the EULA in one way or another.

The only sites that are strictly in compliance would be ones that offered content made using ONLY the Maxis supplied editing tools - meaning clothing, makeup, and hair "skins" for use on original Maxis meshes ONLY (no custom body/hair/accessory meshes), Custom lots using ONLY Maxis made objects (not even user-made recolors of Maxis objects, let alone objects with user-made meshes), and custom walls/floors made using Maxis HomeCrafter.

Hacked objects?  Custom Careers?  New animations?  No way!  Almost everything you all love to download is in violation of the EULA.

Remember that when you ask Maxis to enforce their EULA...
12  Simmers' Paradise / General Sims 2 Discussion / Paysite Discussion Thread on: June 22, 2007, 06:57:12 pm
Personally, I have no problem with paysites - I don't run one, and I don't pay to download from them.  There is more than enough to download from free sites, and the free sections of paysites, to suit me.

I also don't download from those "filesharing" sites - I think they do a dis-service by making paysite items look like they are a "must have", somehow better than free site stuff.  I also think they are disrespectful of the creators.  I don't see how you can respect any of the creators if you don't respect them all - the same work and effort went into an item whether it is offered for free or on a paysite.

That said, I do have a question for those who are anti-paysite.  What positive benefit do you see to the community that would result if all the paysites were gone?  

Do you think people would be more inclined to donate to free sites?  I don't, most people won't voluntarily donate if they can get something for free.  Look at the small percentage of downloaders who actually bother to even click the "thanks" button at MTS2 for example, and that costs nothing....
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