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Author Topic: Paysite Discussion Thread  (Read 65174 times)
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BeosBoxBoy
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« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2007, 11:50:04 am »

To be candid, I could not care less what "EA says", I can hire lawyers and they will "say" whatever I want them to say too.  The constant reliance on what "EA says" is not a valid argument, any more than hearing only one side of any argument.

If you choose to be biased, then there is no discussion, only the brute force of your will upon another.  Might doesn't make right.  Simply because EA wishes it to be so, doesn't make it fact.

Inge, I full well understand what you mean when you say:

Quote
the community is in a far sorrier state now with site-hackings, guestbook trolling, mistrust and bitching than it ever was before this free content activism started


it is, this whole matter has erupted like a cancer in the heart of this community.  I have watched this same sad argument for more years than I ever thought it would endure, and every turn of the screw has been to the detriment of this community.  I am every bit as sick of this division and contention.

I would prefer it have no home on any site I am affiliated with.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2007, 11:54:21 am by ~Marvine~ » Logged

"There is a certain elegance in wasting time. Any fool can waste money, but when you waste time you waste what is priceless."
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Captain_Shepard
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« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2007, 12:08:03 pm »

EA doesn't care much on paysites. If they did then the situation would be more controlled.
But since the internet is huge and there are thousands of paysites its hard to take action agaisn't all.
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Inge Jones
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« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2007, 12:23:07 pm »

Quote from: Teren_Rox;788976
EA doesn't care much on paysites. If they did then the situation would be more controlled.
But since the internet is huge and there are thousands of paysites its hard to take action agaisn't all.


So far they haven't even bothered to put one notice on their site confirming their disapproval.  And they have them in their fansite list too.

EA are probably just regarding the whole thing as an extension of the game.  A game about a game, as I am fond of saying.  That's what I think some of the supporters of the filesharing sites feel too - they're having so much fun dressing up as pirates they'd be devastated if all the paysites became free sites and they lost their reason to do it.
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SimLogical
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Inge Jones
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« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2007, 12:24:31 pm »

Quote from: xnymphetaminex;788927
If thats how you feel Inge..

Your site and attitude was a nice change from others, you created postive change and supported free sites which needed to be done. I strongly hope that you take a break from things and come back to FFFS. Smiley


Thanks for saying that, but I am afraid there is no Federation any more.
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SimLogical
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PegasusDiana
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« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2007, 01:02:44 pm »

I think these points are mute now. I wrote a letter the other day about EA, questioning their taking of free CC from the community, community ideas and basically doing the same thing. Selling CC for their own profits. Then I was told it was a hypothetical situation so I called to clarify what I had written.

From my conversation, it looks like SPORE is being delayed because it was supposed to be like SIMS and you could make CC, but because of what's happened with Paysites that won't be happening. Or if so it will come with much stricter guidelines. Nor does it look like SIMS 3 will be coming with the possibility of adding CC with the way it is now. It too will either come with much stricter guidelines or one possibility is it will come with licensing agreements to reputable companies looking to get ahead that can be of benefit to both parties. Not forums or websites. IE the company is dividing into sections to see this happens for quality control.

I never knew some of these websites that host donations, subscriptions were being accused by companies and designers of stealing their work. (This one is for freesite and paysites)  Some designers have apparently been complaining their clothing, their logos that are trademarked work are being taken and used as CC without permission. Examples: The GAP, Amercrombie and Fitch, McDonalds, etc...which most probably wouldn't have minded, and probably would have linked to the work, but it was done without permission.

Accused of keeping stuff posted on their sites and refusing to remove it when the creator and website split apart. Accused of making a profit off free content creators by stealing their work to sell. Having a lot of disputes with credit card companies.

Something I laughed about, then had to apologize because several of us also found this but haven't said anything. Some are taking object files from websites that distribute their work for free to the 3d community, and wish it to remain free to the whole 3d community. Well several have been making it work for the sims, claiming the work and selling it. Sorry I can't post a phone call, but any of you are welcome to call and speak with EA legal or corporate to voice your own opinion or just talk with them, very friendly people.

Just something that was said to me: There are over 20 million world wide that play the sims, probably less than 5 million go looking for CC. Most are content to play with what they have. And since most of those 5 million "supposedly" already purchase CC then they won't mind purchasing it from EA or one of their affiliates right?
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PegasusDiana
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« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2007, 01:15:24 pm »

Quote from: Inge Jones;788988
So far they haven't even bothered to put one notice on their site confirming their disapproval.  And they have them in their fansite list too.

EA are probably just regarding the whole thing as an extension of the game.  A game about a game, as I am fond of saying.  That's what I think some of the supporters of the filesharing sites feel too - they're having so much fun dressing up as pirates they'd be devastated if all the paysites became free sites and they lost their reason to do it.


I don't think your going to either. I got the feeling they are so disgusted over what has happened and all the drama, that they are just going to ensure it doesn't happen with any of their other games. But, I was also told they are gathering evidence...so who knows what actions they are going to take if any. I'm sure it takes time to subpoena pay pal records to see how much of a profit has actually been made, verses being used for bandwidth, etc...
« Last Edit: June 23, 2007, 01:22:43 pm by PegasusDiana » Logged

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BeosBoxBoy
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« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2007, 02:28:32 pm »

PegasusDIana, I know you believe what they said to you, but if you look back at my posts on this topic as early as May, 2005, I was saying The Sims 3 would be a closed system; how did I come to understand this?  Because as a shareholder of ElectronicArts, I listened to the demands of the other shareholders for more profit from secondary sales.
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PegasusDiana
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« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2007, 03:08:27 pm »

To be truthful I don't know who or what to believe anymore. This whole thing has gone off the deep end on both ends does that make sense? I think in some ways EA themselves have fueled it in thinking a little controversy=sales. I personally don't leave nasty comments in paysites books. I would never post or share anything I have purchased. I would never consider attacking a paysite's website. I have seen both sides do some very ugly things to each other. The only thing I have ever done is contacted EA to let them know I think the selling of CC is wrong on many levels and my reasons. Actually I contacted them not tech support, EA legal first to ask if selling CC was legal or illegal and was told it is illegal. I was also told at that time that EA is aware that several of their own employees are selling CC or working with websites that sell it and it was going to be dealt with. Then, I told them my feelings on why I thought CC should not be allowed to be sold and many of the things that are happening now where in my reasons. We have a war going on within the community and neither side is actually listening or talking to each other. Inge came up with a fantastic idea to help support sites that said they were only doing it for bandwidth. Nouk also did it right in starting a petition. That's how you bring about change, contacting companies, petitions, etc...not in the way it's being done. I have read and agree with many things you have said. But, I also agree with many things that have been said on the other side of the coin as well. You are also probably right on this one too. I said it when they called back in the new CEO, and read who he was...he is the clean up guy, just like Harry Stonecipher is. People know when he's called in there is going to be some division in the company. After that is finished a lot of people are going to loose their jobs, be laid off. That's what they do, they get the company back on track and making the profit they think they should be making.
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Dr_Pixel
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« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2007, 05:44:33 pm »

Another point I wanted to bring up is this -

Everybody is fond of quoting the part of the Eula which says you can't sell custom content for the game, which it does in fact say.  Although to be honest, it would be difficult to prove, legally, that most paysites are in fact selling the "content" as opposed to simply selling access to the site, except those few sites that do charge by the piece.  

However, everyone convieniently ignores the part of the EULA that says you are not allowed to "disassemble" or "reverse engineer" the game contents.

Simply put, this means you can't pick-apart the game files in a hex-=editor or by other means, to see how they are put together.  Without doing this, NONE of the game editing tools like SimPE or any of the mesh import/export tools would be possible.

Now, like paysites, this is an area that Maxis/EA chooses to look the other way on - but, the truth is that the vast majority of Sims2 sites, whether free, or pay, are in violation of the EULA in one way or another.

The only sites that are strictly in compliance would be ones that offered content made using ONLY the Maxis supplied editing tools - meaning clothing, makeup, and hair "skins" for use on original Maxis meshes ONLY (no custom body/hair/accessory meshes), Custom lots using ONLY Maxis made objects (not even user-made recolors of Maxis objects, let alone objects with user-made meshes), and custom walls/floors made using Maxis HomeCrafter.

Hacked objects?  Custom Careers?  New animations?  No way!  Almost everything you all love to download is in violation of the EULA.

Remember that when you ask Maxis to enforce their EULA...
« Last Edit: June 23, 2007, 05:48:53 pm by Dr_Pixel » Logged
BeosBoxBoy
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« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2007, 10:06:10 pm »

hear, hear! well said, Dr Pixel.

I have been singing that Cassandra's song for the past four months!
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kathy
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« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2007, 10:17:59 pm »

I will say in reality not even 5% donates. This site alone, which has almost 220,000 members has only received %.003 of the members donate. This is total number of donators. People who only donate once or people who donate monthly.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2007, 10:33:39 pm by kathy » Logged
Inge Jones
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« Reply #71 on: June 24, 2007, 03:31:29 am »

Quote from: Dr_Pixel;789458


Hacked objects?  Custom Careers?  New animations?  No way!  Almost everything you all love to download is in violation of the EULA.

Remember that when you ask Maxis to enforce their EULA...


Exactly the point I have been trying to make all along.  It was all very well encouraging fellow players and creators to rethink pay content at a community level, but once everyone started hassling EA to get involved I got an ominous feeling that it would all end in tears.
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SimLogical
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« Reply #72 on: June 24, 2007, 11:54:13 am »

But why would EA/Maxis go to court against people who (for to personal gain) try to make the game more fun to play for everyone?
As I see it, it turns into a lawsuit only when people make money from it. Because then it turns into a more sensitive matter, seeing as EA (as a company wanting to make a profit) would rather have people giving money to THEM, not some paysite.
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« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2007, 11:59:44 am »

pickpock, all contracts, even a EULA stand as a whole item.  Either they are valid totally, or the are invalid totally.  It is really that binary.  Under the Uniform Commercial Code - the body of federal law that governs all contract law in the USA which is where this EULA will be tried and enforced - if the lawyers of EA do not enforce EVERY SINGLE CLAUSE, then the EULA is invalid, ergo, paysites are legal and valid.

It is really that cut and dry.

You pull the pin on the hand grenade, it goes off. Sic transit gloria mundi.
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pickpock
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« Reply #74 on: June 24, 2007, 12:08:39 pm »

Well, isn't it still a point of EA wanting to take it to court or not? I mean, I think they have stated that they have an interest in wanting to do away with paysites, but if they don't want to make a lawsuit against the custom career &Co people, who'd make them?
I realise that this could be a good defense for the paysite people, because they then can point at EA and the other 'violators' of the EULA and say: they're doing it too! But they're getting away with it, but I still hope that the EA lawyers are gonna come up with some legal mumbo jumbo making everything but paysites okay Wink Cause as far as I see it, it'll be in the company's best interest.
Might be wishing in vain, I know, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens I guess.
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