Paysite Discussion Thread

[miros1]

I'd urge paysites and freesites to start taking advantage of free download hosting (sendspace, mediafire) and grouping their downloads.

Wrong answer.  Ain't no free hosting worth having that will let you have zip files as downloads or are horribly limited on disk space or bandwidth or plaster your site with ads or popups or have so many other rules that you can't untangle them enough to figure out what you can have.  I've looked.  Face it, "free hosting" is intended for people who need to put up 20 pictures of Grandma's birthday party, not people who are going to have 100s of files downloaded 1000s of times per day!

I suspect the loophole that's allowing music file downloads from free hosting will be closed soon, since hosting music files for which you don't own the copyright is illegal by any measurement.

Also, stop implying that having a paysite is obviously wrong.  Ain't nothing obviously wrong in the whole situation.  

EA, the only one on your list with legal standing -- they can get cease-and-desist order if they really want no paysites.  Until then, no matter what gets published with whatever attribution... it's hearsay at best and forgery at worst.  Show me a legal document signed by a judge and published on the Maxis site, that's the only way you're ever gonna convince me that EA thinks it's wrong.  Until then, it's de facto agreement that paysites are fine, since there's a whole list of them on the site, complete with the words Pay Site.

PMBD -- well, I've been to the MATY boards to get hack updates enough to know that some of those people are pitiful excuses for human beings.  

MTS2 -- have you read their new policy?  No reposting paysite content!

BTW, you never answered my previous questions:

I don't see anyone with a physical or metaphysical gun to your head forcing you to download anything, pay or free!

How does the existence of pay content harm you?  What do you feel you need "protection" from?  Would you like to assume the hosting cost for your favorite pay sites so they could become free sites?

[SolidGoldFunk]

SGF it seems you seem ok with paysites, taking and giving money to creators basically. That is your choice but its rather silly when there's so much great free content available. We all know its time consuming, we all know there are bandwidth costs, but does that justify it especially if lots of people say its wrong (EA Games, MTS2, PMBD) and the quality can often be poor? I'd rather that great sites be freesites and that people donate to them accordingly.

I usually get my stuff for free! I discovered all of the paysites from MTS2. I'm just saying that if that's what they want to do then why shouldn't they be able to do it? If people want to pay for the stuff then that's on the person who's paying. I'm sure people who download CC know that there are many great free sites to download from but people CHOOSE to donate or just give their money to sites they feel deserving. How is that harming anyone? I don't see the hurt to EA or anyone else. I do however agree with PegasusDiana somewhat about the stealing portion however, people can get the tutorials anywhere and they choose not to waste their time. It's unfortunate that some of the people who charge are offering Shitty content but that's life. When you pay for anything online you can't be sure what you're going to get and that's the risk people take when they do it. When I pay, it's usually because I can see that something is worth it (IMO) and I've seen content that I didn't think was worth paying for but that's just me. People shouldn't complain about donating to paysites. We do have choices and if people are getting ripped off then that's tough for them and even me. What's done is done!

I also think that maybe the people who charge for CC are profiting on someone else's hardwork which should never happen, but that's human nature. People are going to take any opportunity they can get and run with it! I hate to be so cynical but that's life so I think we should just all deal with it! If you don't want to pay then don't and if you do then that's on you (me). I think that should be the end of that.

Athena

[Phycosymo]

What I think of paysite owners is that they are people lazy enough to not get a job... paysites were originally created due to bandwith problems...
But now, its just ridiculous to make people pay them considering you can buy terrabytes for a couple of bucks... (Ive checked!) And if you are crazy enough to make a paysite, your stuff will get stolen by pirates!
I love PSMD's booty area...

[djslippyman]

Wrong answer.  Ain't no free hosting worth having that will let you have zip files as downloads or are horribly limited on disk space or bandwidth or plaster your site with ads or popups or have so many other rules that you can't untangle them enough to figure out what you can have.  I've looked.  Face it, "free hosting" is intended for people who need to put up 20 pictures of Grandma's birthday party, not people who are going to have 100s of files downloaded 1000s of times per day!

I suspect the loophole that's allowing music file downloads from free hosting will be closed soon, since hosting music files for which you don't own the copyright is illegal by any measurement.

Also, stop implying that having a paysite is obviously wrong.  Ain't nothing obviously wrong in the whole situation.  

Well your implying that the entire music blog industry is incorrect on how to share files. Being able to download miusic files from these sites is widespread and works amazingly well. I'd say music blogging is the new p2p. So I completely refute your arguments. I think today's kids could weave around the spam on them much better than "granny" could to get her pictures.  

As for if doing music downloads this way is illegal or not is kind of the same thing as saying whether paying for sims downloads should be illegal or not.  I'd say yes, you obviously say no.  I know where you stand and yes I think you are in the wrong if you support paysites. It's ridiculous to claim that copyrighted music sharing is illegal (you are right) and say that sim paysites selling CC is not (they don't a copyright on the items they sell and you can't sell Sims CC. Read the EULA).  

EA, the only one on your list with legal standing -- they can get cease-and-desist order if they really want no paysites.  Until then, no matter what gets published with whatever attribution... it's hearsay at best and forgery at worst.  Show me a legal document signed by a judge and published on the Maxis site, that's the only way you're ever gonna convince me that EA thinks it's wrong.  Until then, it's de facto agreement that paysites are fine, since there's a whole list of them on the site, complete with the words Pay Site.

I've seen EA's staements, they are clear as day. You say they have to actually sue someone before you take them seriously. People against paysites are getting involved so it dosen't need to be escalated to that level yet.

PMBD -- well, I've been to the MATY boards to get hack updates enough to know that some of those people are pitiful excuses for human beings.  

Well they've done more for hacks then any paysite i know (even simslice).  Not surprised to see a value judgement on their whole community from you.  

MTS2 -- have you read their new policy?  No reposting paysite content!  

You didn't read it well enough, its no paysite material period. You can't post "get Peggy's hair for this sim here" anymore and advertise for a paysite mesh or item.  That includes TSR.  If its got any paysite content in or part of the upload its banned. No paysite material allowed. Its going to go 100% freesite and I applaud them for it.

I don't see anyone with a physical or metaphysical gun to your head forcing you to download anything, pay or free!

How does the existence of pay content harm you? What do you feel you need "protection" from? Would you like to assume the hosting cost for your favorite pay sites so they could become free sites?

I, like the freesites, choose to use my freetime as i see fit.  If that's arguing against paysites (or making my own CC) then that's how I choose to use my time.  I'm not getting payed to do it, and I don't think creators need to get paid for their freetime as well. If you love the Sims to it for the game, not the money.

I feel paysites harm the community as they put the Sims in a position where many creator sites are feeding off the community.  You just won't see other game communities doing paid CC and the same dishonorable activities.  I think its's wrong and EA should have acted sooner but it did not.

You can use free-website hosting to show your designs and I've already illustrated how you can host your files and pay for bandwidth by off-site file hosting.  That makes a freesite able to pull off.  I've run plenty of free blogs and websites in the last 10 years to know that its completely possible.  If you choose to ignore what I've recommended that's fine.  I wouldn't expect you to see the light.

[SolidGoldFunk]

I don't think you read the rules carefully djslippyman... "Items that are always free for download on a site that also contains donation or pay items are ok."

That's directly from the site... just a copy and paste! I don't see why you have to be so demanding about your choice. You can't say that someone isn't "seeing the light" because they don't do things your way... it's just not right but it's a part of human nature so I won't fault you for it;)

Also, why shouldn't people get paid for doing something they love? I love fashion but I'll be damned if I'm not going to get paid to do it. If I ever learned how to make cc then I wouldn't charge only because of personal choice. I think if you've already bought the game then that should be enough. I don't care if I had the best CC to offer, I would not charge for it because playing the Sims2 is a hobby (IMO).

You have your opinion so let everyone else have theirs... there's no need for calling people's ideas silly and whatever else you can think of.

Athena

[Inge Jones]

I think this says it all - written by Steve Bonham of TSR:

"On Friday 20th July 2007, I was once again invited back to Electronic Arts ..."

That was well after everyone started writing to them insisting they shut down paysites.  If EA don't want to do it, is it our place to do their legal work for them?

My gesture towards free content is to make and share as much of it as I can.  Why don't we concentrate on helping each other do that, and hope some of the recent ugliness is soon left behind?

[kathy]

I think this says it all - written by Steve Bonham of TSR:
 
"On Friday 20th July 2007, I was once again invited back to Electronic Arts ..."
 
That was well after everyone started writing to them insisting they shut down paysites. If EA don't want to do it, is it our place to do their legal work for them?
 
My gesture towards free content is to make and share as much of it as I can. Why don't we concentrate on helping each other do that, and hope some of the recent ugliness is soon left behind?

Thank god my voice of reason. I'll even grope your boobs rofl.
 
This is preciously my point boys and girls, if EA themselves doesn't give two shits about it and have been clearly blowing smoke up peoples arses, this is rather obvious by Steve's being invited back, why does everyone care so much to bitch about the legality when it is rather clear that EA themselves do NOT care. We can bitch and moan all we want how it isn't fair and how everything in life should be free but this is the real world and sadly this isn't the case.
 
If they ever come out and say anything it is going to be for paysites, not against them. They are linked to in the fansite listings, they are linked to all over the BBS, the linked to TSR's birthday for christ sakes. You have to be nuts to honestly believe that they had no clue.

[miros1]

You have your opinion so let everyone else have theirs... there's no need for calling people's ideas silly and whatever else you can think of.

Thank you, SolidGoldFunk.  This gentleman, and I use the term loosely, has his opinion and is not about to change it.  Since his posts are basically demands that I change my stance, which will happen when EA gets a cease and desist order, he's on my ignore list.  

Also cross reference my first two posts in this thread where I mentioned the futility of teaching pigs to sing and refered to to him as unteachable.

BTW, I just did a search on the Patent Office site... Neither EA nor Maxis has ever been awarded a patent on the DBPF format.  Guess what?  They don't "own" the package format!  Without a patent, they cannot control who can or can't write programs to create and modify package files or what any programs do to those files.

Thank god my voice of reason. I'll even grope your boobs rofl.

Will you be selling videos of that occasion as part of the fund raiser?

[atlbynghtst]

I am not sure what is going on behind the scenes with the Paysite issue, but i ahve noticed a lot of them now seem to have the same things...the exact same things with meshes made by someone claiming to be the original creator, and this creator is not the same one all the time...so yes the question might not be what the money from these things is supporting, more the question might be who is taking the meshes as their own.
Pirating movies and music seemed to be a big major thing not to long ago..i wold think this might become a major issue also. These creators work very hard to make things for those of us who are addicted to this game and the enhancements we get from downloading things for it, so I think it shouldnt matter what supports what..but who is stealing from it.
True I have a job and well we all know no job pays us what we really need to get by on what with rent and bills so it is a given that people might feel their things should be paid for, though thats not my opinion on my things, I have a hard enough time finding the time to actually play here lately.
Anyway, thats all I have to say, and thank you for letting me say it

anne

[Inge Jones]

BTW, I just did a search on the Patent Office site... Neither EA nor Maxis has ever been awarded a patent on the DBPF format.

My memory is a bit vague on this, but I seem to remember a maxoid mentioning once right near the beginning of Sims 2 that something like it was unusual for a commercial game to send out so much of the software in an open format and benefit the custom creators in such a way.  And I felt at the time there was this sort of veiled warning that it could change in the future.

I am very concerned that we shouldn't get in their hair so much they close things up for Sims 3.  It's so much fun being able to poke around in the files so freely.  I know they might make tools themselves but looking at bodyshop and homecrafter they are not likely to be as flexible as something like SimPE.

[Tenshii~Akari]

A little off of the current subject, but I just couldn't help thinking this now:  "Ah... the evil that money will bring."

Just look at how dysfunctional the community is over this whole issue of pay vs. free.  All of the debates/arguments/etc. on who's right and who's wrong, who should be doing what, etc.  just because of who's making content for the sake of money or not.  I tell you, the green will bring out the worst in people sometimes... :?

This is why I'm happy with being broke and hating money.  :angel:

(ETA:  Man you people post fast!  I had something else to say, but I'll wait a while.  :lol:)

[miros1]

I am very concerned that we shouldn't get in their hair so much they close things up for Sims 3.  It's so much fun being able to poke around in the files so freely.  I know they might make tools themselves but looking at bodyshop and homecrafter they are not likely to be as flexible as something like SimPE.

I suspect they already have made that decision.  So we'll all just keep playing Sims 2 until our CDs are too scratched to spin up in our drives.

Name one thing that comes out of BodyShop or HomeCrafter that's not improved by a quick trip through SimPE.  Clothes have to be age adjusted or unisexed.  Hair has to be binned.  HomeCrafter doesn't allow multiple line descriptions (IIRC).

[PegasusDiana]

I suspect they already have made that decision.  So we'll all just keep playing Sims 2 until our CDs are too scratched to spin up in our drives.

Name one thing that comes out of BodyShop or HomeCrafter that's not improved by a quick trip through SimPE.  Clothes have to be age adjusted or unisexed.  Hair has to be binned.  HomeCrafter doesn't allow multiple line descriptions (IIRC).

No now were still going to have Spore which is going to come with custom content creators because Maxis still holds rights over it. I think once it comes out I'll have to continue this fight over on their forums. lol I've been waiting forever for it to come out.  In fact the only reason I purchased the Sims 2 which I swore I wasn't going too after Sims 1 was the release date on it was 2 years away. But I think your correct about Sims 3, I think EA is closing up shop as far as CC creation. I just read an article about how much money they've been loosing and that they are going to be downgrading. I knew that was coming when they brought back the former CEO. I think I said it in an earlier post he's the clean up guy.

[Dr_Pixel]

I am a bit surprised that creators of skins and other CC support paysites when they create for free themself? Could anyone enlighten me?

I create free Sims2 content, but I am against the whole anti-paysite thing, so I wanted to answer this too.

As for the EULA and legal agruments, Kathy has already answered that much better than I could.

Anyway, I do NOT support paysites simply because I am not in favor of the anti-paysite stance.  I personally don't look at them as anything more than simply a Sims2 site.

What I do support is respect for the content creators, no matter what site they create for, and no matter if I approve of how they choose to distribute their items.  To me, the only right thing to do is to respect their wishes - if they say "do not put this on the Exchange", I won't.  Likewise if they say "do not redistribute at all", "do not recolor", or even "you must subscribe to get this item", I will respect that as well.

The second thing I strongly support is the right of people to choose - I personally choose not to subscribe to Sims2 sites, nor pay a donation fee to get a donation item from a free site.  But neither I, nor anybody else, has a right to make that descision for other people.

I can't honestly support these two principles, and also be anti-paysite.

[kathy]

What I do support is respect for the content creators, no matter what site they create for, and no matter if I approve of how they choose to distribute their items. To me, the only right thing to do is to respect their wishes - if they say "do not put this on the Exchange", I won't. Likewise if they say "do not redistribute at all", "do not recolor", or even "you must subscribe to get this item", I will respect that as well.

You bring up a wonderful point and I wish to make my post as clear as possible to help prevent any misquoting that is bound to come from it. While there is a lot of sharing of pay content going on they, the pirates, don't share free content as it is redundant if it is free elsewheres. Pescado and 98% of the others have stood by this since day one. However there are some, who have taken it to the next level and has the attitude screw it all I will do whatever I want with your work regardless of what your terms are, free or pay. One site owner in particular has been caught doing this time after time and, from my understanding (and yes I verified by checking) is doing it yet again with content from this site.
 
Sakrayami, to answer your question, that is one of the primary reasons why you see any free content creator defending paysites. Because it isn't stopping with just paysites, it is leaking in to the free content arena. Some people simply choose to disreguard anyones wishes and then has the audacity to ban them when they attempt to get their content removed from the site in question. Others simply don't see the point in continuing the fight as it has accomplished nothing thus far.