I wasn't bald until I started playing the Sims 2...

[JCSpencer]

Yeah. I'm a little miffed at the moment. Granted, it's partly my fault. I have so much CC currently installed that it takes me about 25-28 minutes to go from inserting the CD to finally entering a household. However, only a handful of this CC is classified as "Hack"; the rest of it is mostly new objects, object recolors, clothes, hair, makeup, and such. Now the problems I am experiencing I cannot seem to trace to any particular CC, so I decided to come here - my favorite site with the most kind and helpful people *big grin* - and am hoping that someone, anyone might have experienced some or all of my problems and can point me in the direction of salvation (and hair restoration).

Specs: 3 GHz CPU, 1GB RAM, ATI Mobility Radeon X600.
EPs: Sims 2 Deluxe (Sims 2 + Night Life), University, Open For Business.

Yes, I know I didn't have to list it as Deluxe, but I sometimes wonder if buying the Deluxe versus buying Sims 2 and Night Life separately might have been a mistake. Anyhoo, on to the problems.

And a warning: I am a bit verbose in the description of my problems below, but I wanted to make sure I gave as much information as possible since more is usually better when it comes to data used for troubleshooting. That and I just tend to be exceedingly verbose; okay, so I just talk a lot. Forgive me, and thanks in advance for freely devoting the extra time to read it.

Problem #1: I don't know which expansion added it, but I noticed that I now have a "Hang Out" option when talking to Sims. So I tried it. Both Sims sat down wherever they were, started their talk animations and generated thought bubbles, and then... I'm staring at my desktop. It's a cool desktop, but strangely enough, I really don't like seeing it when I'm supposed to be playing the Sims 2. Oh yeah, and I did get the "application has crashed" box.

This hasn't happened just once; it's happened three times, on consecutive attempts. The second time happened because I had just happened to save my game after queuing the "Hang Out" command that caused the first crash, and when I loaded back up and got back to the household (almost 30 minutes later...), they started hanging out and it crashed again. I thought I was permanently... well, you-know-what. Fortunately... 30 minutes later... I managed to cancel out the command and they stopped hanging out before a crash occurred.

But I hadn't learned my lesson... "maybe the stove won't be hot this time," I thought to myself. The third time occurred much later after I had removed some content that I suspected was causing some other errors. I figured, "Hey, I removed a bunch of stuff; maybe I can hang out now. Besides, maybe it was just that one person I was talking to, or maybe it was the lot. Or something. Maybe." Maybe I figured wrong. Crashed, again. So now I refuse to hang out until someone can convince me that the problem can be fixed (I'm dreading another half hour load just to have another crash to test a 'theory'). Oh, and by the way, I noticed that NPC Sims can autonomously hang out with one another without a problem. Happens all the time in college. It's only when a playable Sim tries to do it that the problem occurs.


Problem #2: Another instant-crash scenario. Anytime I encounter an event that completely drains a motive, I get a crash (specifically, I suspect my problem is related to the Energy motive). For example, if I attempt to don a Thinking Cap when my aspiration is too low, it can fry my Sim's noggin (as expected). Now normally the Sims would lose a skill point, the Energy would drop to 0, and the Sims would pass out. In my game, after the little helmet short circuits and my Sim smells burning brain matter, the game crashes. It doesn't actually get to the pass out animation.

I didn't realize the Energy connection until more recently, when one of my Sims went to work with very low energy. When he came home and got out of the car, his energy motive was completely drained. Now normally you expect the cutesy lullaby music and the Sim passes out. Not in my game. Oh, no. I get to see my desktop, again. It's a special edition. I think it's extra-strength motivation to never let my Sims run out of Energy. I should note that again the game never actually gets to the part of processing the pass out animation; the crash occurs just before that. Coincidence, or culprit?

Those are the only two types of events where I've encountered motive-related game crashes, and since they are both Energy-related, I thus suspected the problem was Energy-related. Genius, I know. The only mod I can think of that I have related to the Energy motive is the hack by [Black_Spirit] at MTS2 that stops the ridiculous energy loss that occurs when using the Dazzle interaction with customers. However, in all cases where I've experienced this crash, it was never on a business lot (not even a home business).


Problem #3: This is certainly mod-related, and I have a list of suspects, but I figured I'd post the problem anyway with the hope that someone knows what I'm talking about (because I sure don't). After raiding InSim and MTS2 and a few other smaller sites, I felt I was finally ready to stop the ridiculous downloading and actually play the game for a change. Mind you, that means I was starting a new game with over 5000 downloads with virtually no testing of the game between the first and last download. Now I did install only one hundred at a time and loaded through to the neighborhood selection screen just to weed out the files that were causing crashes or freezes during the loading process, of which there were few (and I suspect those were mostly related to the Pets bodyshop bug).

Anyway, I created my first family, moved them to a nice new [Maxis] house (no custom content), and watched as they appreciated what I had done for them... by standing around doing absolutely nothing at all. Nada. Zip. The house had toilets, beds, couches, chairs, a desk, computer, pinball machine, treadmill, sinks, showers, counters, an oven, refrigerator, trash compactor, dishwasher, lots of windows, a dresser, ample lighting... and they didn't give a rat's patootie. In fact, they also didn't care that, after a couple of hours, their bladders were ready to explode, their stomachs were going to revolt, or that standing around was actually quite uncomfortable.

"Um, don't you guys want to check out that nice §1000 couch I bought for you? Or that top-o'-the-line computer? That ultra-comfy super-cushy toilet? The unremarkable green sink I slapped in the kitchen since you were almost broke?"

Actually, I need to be a little more explicit. It wasn't really *everybody* that was standing around doing nothing. Nope. Just the ones that mattered, the ones that were supposed to be keeping the house in order, the kids fed, the bills paid... yep, it was the adults that would've stood there 'til they died from multiple complications. And yes, free will was on. I always leave it on. In this case, I even turned it off and back on. But still nothing. They were brain-dead. Maybe a new feature? Zombies? A lobotomization aspiration? On the other hand, the three kids were actually enjoying their vegetables... err, parents.

[EDIT: Oops! I hit the ENTER key on accident right here, so if you only saw this much, I wasn't actually done yet. You ain't that lucky. I got more talking to do.]

Anyway, I removed some custom careers and a... *embarrassed*... woohoo-anywhere mod. The custom career mods allowed Sims to have the Unemployed or Business Owner careers, and I discovered a few custom foods that were listed as careers, but I only removed the ones that were showing up as red in the Sims2Pack Clean Installer (presumably meaning that only those were hacks). When I reloaded the game, everything was back to normal. The adults were moving on their own and working to restore their own motives. Now it should be noted that I never actually got any of them a job at this point, not even the custom ones. I really would like to use the Business Owner/Unemployed careers, but since I don't know which of the half dozen or so mods I removed was causing the problem, I don't want to reactivate any of them just yet. I'm hoping somebody else can either confirm my suspicions or help me identify the real culprit.

-----------------

Okay, at the moment, that's all I can think of. Aren't you glad? I know there were a few other questions, but they have presently escaped me. I'll post them later when I can think of them (or my game crashes again). Again, I thank anyone in advance that can sit through all of this nonsense and still have the presence of mind to provide some suggestions or insight.

[BeosBoxBoy]

Sims 2 Deluxe uses the SecuROM copy protection software, so that may be the root source of all your evil =(

[JCSpencer]

Sims 2 Deluxe uses the SecuROM copy protection software, so that may be the root source of all your evil =(

I'm not sure I follow you.

EDIT: Okay, that was vague. What I mean is, I don't understand how CP can affect gameplay (other than slowing it down). I know that some CP, such as that used by Bethesda, makes the drive run incessantly, which can generate excess heat, wear out your drive, and/or damage your disc. But as for how it can cause the aforementioned errors, I don't follow. I admittedly know little about code.

[JCSpencer]

Thought of another problem I'm having. As I mentioned previously, I have an enormous amount of custom content. However, in every case I took extreme care to ensure that everything I downloaded also included all of the pre-requisites, be it EPs or other custom content (such as in the case of recolors). However, my clothing catalog (nothing else) is constantly filled with a large number of the same generic Maxis outfit, and no custom image. Usually when I click on the picture, the correct outfit shows up on the Sim, but the icon is for something else entirely (such as a Maxis business suit). And in a few instances (maybe three or four), the icon shows a naked Barbie instead of the correct outfit. Also in a few instances, when I click on the custom outfit icons (the ones with incorrectly displayed icons), it really does equip my Sim with the pictured generic Maxis outfit and not the custom outfit. Fortunately this is one of the problems that doesn't crash my game.

[ancienthighway]

One thing you might do...at least this is what I would do...remove all of your downloads.  Set them off on the desktop someplace so you don't have to do the redownload thing again.  Delete groups.cache.  Maybe delete the .thumbnails also.

Go into game and in a new neighborhood with new sims give it a whirl.  No CC means you'll load up really fast.  Check out the hang out and no energy crashes.  No crash, one of those downloads is the culprit.  But if you're still crashing, there's some other problem.  

NOTE:  Object Errors and jump bugs are caused mainly by mods/hacks, to include object mods (that hacked bookcase that does something special).  Crashes in game can be caused by hardware issues or meshes.  

While I don't care for third party products being added to my computer, I'm not sold on the belief that SecruROM is doing nefarious things to my computer.

Do the mods/hacks next.  But leave the careers, majors, and foods out.  Why?  These three types of custom objects are notorious for bad coding, hardwired data, and working only under specified conditions.  There are some good ones out there (Exnem makes the only food I'd consider using, I won't even touch careers and majors), but until you're familiar with the coder's work, you're playing with fire.

Go into game and check the crash actions again.  I'm going to assume you know how to use the Binary method to weed out the bad hacks.

If you don't have it already, get Delphy's Download Organizer.  One of the things I like about it is rather than giving you a generic description of "Mesh" for type, it will break it down to Hair Mesh, Clothing Mesh, and Object Mesh.  As you didn't say you have problems in CAS or Bodyshop, Hair and Clothing Meshes should be okay.  Stick them in to game to confirm.  Open up CAS and create a sim.  You may need a texture file or two to test these out.  Depending on how detailed you want to get, you could put each item on a sim, but I've found that just scrolling through the various clothing or hairs will catch the bad ones.  

(If you aren't already, make use of subfolders to sort stuff.)

Now where your problem may be coming from...the Object Meshes.  Object Meshes can also be EP specific.  Not to mention oversized.  And poorly designed with pieces missing that cause crashes.  Personally I've had so many problems with customs objects, furniture in particular, that I simply deleted the ones I had.  Okay, so I have an unrefined sense of fashion and style.  I used to be a programmer....

If you're one of the trendy types though, use a modified binary method to start putting custom objects back into game.  Again, you may need a texture (recolor) to test it.  Pick a room and put custom objects that are for that type room, e.g. bedroom, living room, etc.  Then go crazy decorating and redecorating until you'll exhausted CC for that room.  Don't forget to do a little play testing in the process.  Next room, rinse and repeat.  Weed out the bad.

By the time you get through all this, you should be able to put the rest of your CC in game with confidence that it will work.

How's that for a lengthy response to your lengthy post?

[JCSpencer]

How's that for a lengthy response to your lengthy post?

Good job! You just earned yourself a Bronze Verbosity Badge.

And after reading your response, I think you've given me the little bit of extra encouragement I needed to make the decision I've been tossing around at the back of my brain cavity: delete everything and start from scratch.

To be honest, one thing I've noticed is that a majority (i.e., more than 50%) of what I've downloaded looked way better in the little screenshots than it does in my game. Some of the hairs look atrocious; the paint jobs on some cars is actually a single, solid, undetailed texture with shininess added, not to mention the fact that the wheels don't turn, the doors become detached, and the head pokes through the roof; some clothes look awesome in 100x100 jpegs, but are absolutely hideous when seen in the game; a lot of the furniture ended up being texture-less, boxy, or the creators tried to make the poly counts too low and created monstrosities. What about the fountains that looked good in the screenshots, but in the game they were single color, low-poly objects that made the water jets look like works of classical art? In the presence of even Maxis trees and house siding, the fountains looked absolutely ridiculous, as if they belonged in an older, less-graphically-advanced game. Like Pong. Those are just a few examples anyway.

Plus, I got into the bad habit (just like in real life) of grabbing everything that looked even remotely cool, or that I thought someday in the distant future I might have a use for it. Seriously, I have over 15 pages of hairs in each color bin, and easily twice that in the custom hair bin, if not more. How many of those hairs am I really going to use? Truthfully, a couple dozen.

I just got a little carried away, and now I have so much stuff, I'm afraid to use the Delete Custom Content button from within the game, because of all the Read Me's that mentioned "such-and-such an object is required for this to work," or "Deleting this will cause something else to break."

Like I said, I have about 5000 downloads, but that translates into the 20,000+ package files in my Downloads folder, no subfolders. I can't even figure out what half of the stuff is. A large number of packages just have hexadecimal alphanumerics for a name, and others are so generic - like "red.package" (WTF?) - that it really doesn't help you narrow it down (other than the fact that it's something red...).

Not to mention the fact that, thanks to the very sloppy and inefficient way in which The Sims 2 loads things and wastes computer resources, I can't even use some of the custom content that I do like. For example, SimWardrobe's arcades or a few of the custom movies I've downloaded for the TV. I had to delete the TV channels because any time my Sims changed to that channel, I'd get kicked to the desktop (TS2 didn't crash, but I had to go click on the window and wait a couple of minutes for it to open back up). I can't use the custom arcade games for the same reason - the loading of the video requires more memory than TS2 is leaving my computer. And the videos aren't even that big. As I said, I have 1GB RAM, but thanks to all the custom content, I've had to steadily increase the VM which is now at 3GB. That's ridiculous. EDIT: Oh, and sometimes even my stereo can cause the game to lock up or even crash, because loading a 5 MB mp3 is too much of a burden after everything else TS2 puts my computer through.

Granted, I've got some really cool stuff to play with, but I'd say 75% of it is never going to be used, or really isn't necessary. I love the little toilet paper dispensers for making my bathrooms more realistic, but since I always play with walls down, I never see them, and I don't need them for props since I'm not making movies. So why keep it?

At last check, I could decorate a store four levels tall on a 5x6 lot with every painting and the respective recolors that I currently have, and still run out of room before I've gotten two-thirds of the way through.

I guess I just created these problems for myself. While your suggestions sounded helpful, they also made me realize how ridiculous my downloading had gotten. It'll take me ages to sort through tens of thousands of files. It took me three days just to go through the check-every-hundred process I mentioned above before I finally got to play the game. And to be honest, I'm not familiar with the term "binary method," at least not as it might pertain to sorting through my downloads.

Thank you for your suggestions. While I am probably not going to use it, you were still a big help. I think you forced me realize that instead of addressing the symptoms, maybe I should be addressing the cause.

Or maybe I'm just pissed at Maxis/EA. It took me two years to grow my hair as long as I had it before "playing" The Sims 2.


--------------------

EDIT: That said, how would I go about packaging the few families and houses I've built without creating problems after I delete the custom content? Will the game crash if I reload a house back into the game that was using CC paint on the walls, or does the game simply remove it or replace it with a Maxis paint? And when I package my Sims, can I keep stuff in their inventories, such as aspiration rewards, custom paintings that they made; do they keep memories and such? Basically, I have two houses, three businesses, and four or five families that I want to transfer over to a fresh, new game. I've never done this before. Or is their an easier method: Could I simply delete all of my custom content and then load up the game without creating umpteen billion errors?

Thanks again.

[ancienthighway]

Probably the best way to save the sims and lots you want that have CC is to move the sims into a lot you want to keep.  Then from the neighborhood screen package the lot to file.  Then remove the CC you no longer want, install the packaged lots (any CC packaged with them will be put back into the game but the file name may be something like 4393d7ef29fa4c1cbe681fdd97478eb8_0001.package so don't freak out on those.  Both Clean Installer and DDO will help you identify those and rename them or leave them alone and just categorize them.  Memories will be gone.  The sims will be reset to the beginning of their age period, jobless, but anything in their inventory or on the lot should be there along with household funds.

If you stay in the same neighborhood, any lots not exported that had CC will need to be cleaned up.  You may find rather than all those custom plants you had around the house, the lot is now covered with various sculptures.

EDIT:  Probably a good idea to delete and start over.  It sounds like it would be more efficient than trying to search through everything.

[JCSpencer]

Okay, so if I load up my game right now, with CC enabled, and delete everything in the houses that's CC, then save and exit the game, remove all CC, then load the game back up again, I can play my Sims without having to worry about packaging or losing memories?

[ancienthighway]

If you don't care about saving any CC, you can just delete, and go into game; no need to remove it from the particular lots ahead of time.  When you go back into game you may need to do some redecorating and fashion makeovers though.

[JCSpencer]

Well for the CC, I think I'm just going to start over from scratch. Go easier on the downloads and, like you mentioned, stick to people that have a good rep or that I know have released good-quality, stable stuff. Plus I really need to use subfolders to better manage my stuff. Even with poorly named files, I could at least keep everything from a certain creator in its own subfolder. I assume. Can I use any name for any subfolder, and can I put any package file into a subfolder, or are there restrictions?

I figure I'll just DL a little CC at a time, play with it for a while to make sure nothing bad happens before trying some more. That way I can be alerted right away that something in the last batch created a problem... instead of wondering which of my 20,000 files is acting up.

As for the redecorating you mention - loading a lot that had CC that is no longer available won't cause any kind of problems? Right now my game is acting up, but I'd like to avoid a nuclear explosion.

Oh, and thank you very much for all this help!

[ancienthighway]

The only folder name requirement is Downloads.

You can name your subfolders whatever you want.  Some users will cringe and wonder how this ever works for me, but I've got a folder named Bodyshop.  Within it I've got more subfolders for Clothing, Hair, Eyeliner, blah blah blah.  I've had subfolders 4 or 5 deep.  I've seen subfolders based on download site and creator too.

The only thing I would recommend on subfolders is to have one for mods, one for meshes, and one for brand new downloads of any type.  Subdivide those folders as you see fit.  With mods and meshes being potential causes of the  game misbehaving, having them isolated reduces the number of files you have to search through if you have problems.

Then anything you download you put it that special folder for the new stuff.  I call mine Test.  After playing the game, if I have a new problem, I know exactly where to look (Test).  After I'm confident the downloads in the Test folder are working as I want, I'll move them off to where they really belong.

Lots and sims that were created with CC will load fine, but with Maxis defaults.

[JCSpencer]

Awesome suggestions, ancienthighway. Thanks very much for taking the time out to help me. Granted, this didn't go in the direction I originally intended, but I think it's for the best. To be honest, I wanted to get rid of some of the CC but was afraid to just start deleting it left and right. Besides, I've learned quite a bit since my last downloading binge, and I know to be a bit more careful with CC.

I was thinking about it, and another thing that bothers me is how too much of the CC is also essentially a cheat. Like a nice looking bed that also happens to have 10 Comfort/10 Energy/10 Environment, and costs only §800, whereas the Maxis bed with 8C/8E costs §3400. That bugs me. So in the future, I'm definitely going to be a lot more cautious and picky about what I download.

[fftamfan]

Hey JCSpencer, i had encountered similar issues like you with constant crashes mine was most likely a guid conflict cause while browsing the buy/build catalog id get a conflict with a particular object, and boom back to desktop "application has crashed". Heres a link for more info http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Game_Help:GUID_Conflicts.  If you still can't do without your cc, and wanna find the damn bastard culprit file here's some more handy links i swear by,
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Game_Help:Game_Problem
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Game_Help:Finding_Problem_Custom_Content
- hack conflict detection utility tool from http://www.simswardrobe.com

If your culling your cc, i congrat you. Id never have the guts to part with my cc. If your starting fresh and wanna keep your cc nice and organized, here's some recommendations for programs to help with categorizing.

-sims2 clean installer
- delphy's download manager
- simpe (to check for guid conflicts)
- the compressorizer by jfade (if you wish to shrink your cc and make room for more cc lol, or just to save more hard drive space)
- the wardrobe wrangler by jfade (is beta though, good for organizing bodyshop files)
- fo more programs by jfade visit http://forum.djssims.com/ or
http://www.djssims.com/
- a good tutorial guide for organizing/categorizing content
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Game_Help:Organizing_Custom_Content

[JCSpencer]

I grabbed a few of those. The HCDU, S2CI, and SimPE (which I still haven't touched; need to learn that). I use S2CI a lot for checking for duplicate files and potential trouble makers. HCDU helps me with hacks, but until recently, I didn't really have very many. I was having an awful time with custom foods causing problems (and it's pretty well documented now I guess), so even though they were cool, they're getting the boot.

As for the rest - well, to be honest, I ended up with a bunch of crap CC. Some of it looked awesome in screenshots, probably because they were Photo Shop'd. But once they got in the game - buh-lah. I mean some were rrrrrreally bad. Which is a little disappointing since some of it came from fairly well-respected creators. So I'm going to spend a little time browsing and just grab stuff that either I really need, or that I know was really cool and didn't cause a problem before. AND... as ancient suggested, I'm going to install just a little at a time and test it out to be sure it works before installing more. So I don't want to get rid of all of it, but what's the point of keeping it all if it's going to take me that long to load up a game just to crash and do it again? I hope your CC is more stable than mine. LOL.

I'd love to find the damn bastard culprit, but when you're lookin' at 20,000+ files and spending half an hour at a time just to load the game and purposely do something I know causes a crash just to test if it still crashes... well, I think it would be easier (and save my keyboard/mouse a lot of suffering) to start from scratch and use better judgment before DLing.

And thanks for the response, btw. I'll check out some of those programs I haven't heard of before.

[fftamfan]

Yeah i understand what your going through. With mine it takes say bout 20-25min to load. Have about over 14gb of cc at the moment. I will be slowly threading though all my cc and delete any unwanted stuff. Ive already scheduled a timetable on how to do this, spanning of 4hrs each session for 3x days. Although i suspect its probably gonna take longer than that.lol.

With simpe i just don't get that program, i just followed the step by step guide from wikipedia. Downside of using that option is you can only disable the files, not delete or transfer them, can't scroll down to select all of them if you have alot, only one by one. What would be great, is a new program that does exactly this only has better features, maybe i should make a request.

Heres some info extracted from wikipedia if you still need to pinpoint the trouble maker :
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=Game_Help:Finding_Problem_Custom_Content

Remove Most Likely Culprits
Certain items are more likely to cause problems than others. Often, the following sorts of files can cause problems in peoples' games:

    * Careers
    * University Majors
    * Hacks
    * Hacked Objects

Remove Unlikely Files

Before you begin the steps below for the 50% method, you may want to sort out files that you can be reasonably sure are safe and will not be causing major problems with your game. These files include:

    * Walls
    * Floors (Regular ones - glass/transparent floors can cause problems with Homecrafter)
    * Ground Cover
    * Makeup
    * Eyebrows
    * Skintones
    * Recolors of Maxis clothing, hair, and accessories

By taking out these almost-always-completely-fine downloads, you can save yourself some time as you'll have less potentially-borked files to sort through. If you don't know where you have all those files, Delphy's Download Organizer can help you find them to sort them out.


As stated on wikipedia DDO is a great tool for sorting content and viewing specific categories, now i have individual folders in my buymode/objects folder. eg. seating, surfaces, electronics and so on. If you load only some cc eg. just the objects folder (or only 1 of the individual folders, seating folder for example) and leave out all bodyshop files, it will significantly reduce loading times.

What helps too is to sort items by date, so if you recall the last time/date your game run perfectly without crashing, then you can narrow down the amount of files to look at. Another handy tool with simpe, is you can find orphans as well, have heard its more reliable/accurate than DDO.