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Author Topic: What's your take on Securom?  (Read 18391 times)
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Nione
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« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2008, 11:37:12 pm »

For those of you who missed it somehow, this is a link to a "Bill of Rights" for gamers released by Stardock, an independent game publisher and distributor.
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/08/29/stardock-releases-gamer039s-bill-rights-pax

That site also has a lot of other recent news about EA and Spore and the T2 failed acquisition.

I've bought Stardock distributed games before and for what they are, they are very good. They appeal more to the gamer with a limited budget, limited time, or more interested in casual gaming. Stardock's president has the idea that people who pirate games aren't going to buy them no matter what you do, so you should target your games to the broadest audience that is likely to buy, and cultivate customer loyalty by not treating your paying customers with suspicion. Bravo! Finally! His company is surely not making as much money as EA, but they also aren't getting trashed all over Amazon by ex-customers.

Kudos, a Positech game available over at Stardock or on the Kudos site is sort of a simplified version of the Sims, by the way. It has nowhere near the complexity, but it's very satisfying on that sort of casual game level. I bought it from Stardock to reward them for their bill of gamer rights and don't regret it. It came with no copyright protection, you don't need to be online to play it, and it doesn't even phone home for free the updates unless you want it to. I don't normally play casual games, but the whole experience with both companies is so refreshing compared to what I am used to getting from game companies, I think I will try their other games, too. Kudos is very easily moddable, intentionally. It may be too simple for some of you, though. If you start feeling withdrawals and temptation over one of the newer Sims2 expansions or packs, it might ease your cravings a little bit until sanity returns.

http://www.stardock.com
http://www.positech.co.uk/kudos/index_variant_video.html
Both of those companies give modders :love4:

I will always love the Sims, but I am not going to knowingly buy anything with Securom on it because my Dell computer came with at least 3 programs it blacklists. Oooh, I must be a pirate because I paid an arm and a leg for an XPS system and don't want to wreck my hardware. Dell customers should be aware that if you have anything preinstalled on your system called Nero, Roxio, or Amapi, or you have an IDE CD/DVD device or even a digital camera or printer which came with your system, you may be at risk of permanent, irreparable hardware damage from Securom. Some users have had DVD drives replaced by Dell but Dell knows about the Securom problem, and it's no guarantee you will be able to get a replacement if even after ridding yourself of Securom(with difficult) your DVDs still do not work or you can't back up your professional work or school work to disks. One Dell customer said she got a replacement because she had inadvertantly bought software which contained Securom as part of a bundle with her computer. Would she have gotten one otherwise? It's hard to know. It's not Dell's fault or the customer's when a customer is subjected to a stealth program/possible rootkit. Forgive me if I doubt Sony's word after their previous history.

Sony's belief is you don't have the right to use Process Explorer to see what's running on your own computer because that apparently somehow violates their involuntary terms of service that you aren't allowed to try to figure out how their software works. Chances are, you never agreed to any terms of service with them and their software invisibly invaded your computer, which is actually illegal in some other places where current EA games are sold. I am not sure where they get their righteousness. If I caught a guy disabling my TV in my living room because I "might potentially" be planning to steal from a friend of his, and then he told me I had no right to check his pockets, he might be legally correct depending on where it took place because he is a person and accorded certain legal rights, but using Process Explorer on your own system for the intended uses is no crime anywhere that I know about. It's basically a troubleshooting tool. Here's what it does. Ask yourself if Sony has the right to forbid you to use it, and if there is any justifiable reason a person running it should be considered a likely pirate.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx

EA, dump the Securom or you will not only lose my purchases of any Sims2 software which has it, but also my purchase of the entire Sims3 line, which I absolutely would have collected. Not that you apparently care there are thousands like me. SafeDisk made games tricky to install but it didn't cost me more hassles than one reboot into safe mode. And Sony? I've been boycotting them for years now. This hubris and mistreatment is nothing new for them.

End of :rant:
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~Angel~
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« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2008, 06:02:25 am »

I play mine on two computers, on my fiances comp, I aint had problems with Securom. On mine, I dont know if it is caused by this or just the fact my computers getting too old. I try not to think about the fact it is on my computer, and just enjoy the games. I think its wrong to put something like this into a game and scare people out of wanting to buy the new expansions, but I wanted to get them, so I did. So far so good, although I probably just cursed myself now lol.
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shortgal
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« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2008, 06:29:36 am »

I have not gone past pets.  I don't  have that good of a computer but even if I did  I am undeceided.   What about the fixes they use to get rid of secure rom at E.A or do you have to go thru the whole "no cracked cd  mess??  I would  be very confused.
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MaryH
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« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2008, 06:59:44 am »

At the sites that Tenshii noted (and that are in my sig), you will find the removal instructions for SecuRom.
They're not easy, but then again, you're getting rid of a very invasive and destructive piece of malware that likes to settle deeply into your computer.
Do not use the instructions at EA. They're useless.
Our instructions, by the way, were developed with the help of JM Pescado, the god of the mods.
(even Squinge will agree with that statement.)
If JMP approved them, they work.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 07:02:54 am by MaryH » Logged

Tenshii~Akari
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« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2008, 07:03:07 am »

The EA "fixes" only sent people around in circles.  Once you removed SecuRom with the tool, you wouldn't be able to play your game the normal way without re-installing it on your computer... thus the "illegal" methods many have had to take in order to play the games they bought.   :?

And I'm personally happy to see that Stardock and Positech are part of the (rare) companies that still care about their consumer-base's computers.  :clap:  Hard to find some these days that are too worried about pirating and loosing profits rather than the fans.  Wink
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 07:08:27 am by Tenshii~Akari » Logged

abaris
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« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2008, 09:16:26 am »

My take on Securom?

I made it my policy not to buy any game unless there's a no CD/DVD patch out already. So these pieces of cack don't enter my drive. They're more than useless anyway, since the games are cracked within hours of them hitting the market. All these so called security tools are only there to annoy customers.

And securom especially? Well, since the sony scandal a few years back, the label sony is a major deterrent for me.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 09:18:44 am by abaris » Logged
BlooM
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« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2008, 09:40:14 am »

As far as i know Securom worked ok till they did a update on it wich wasn't properly tested.
This update came with Bon voyage(correct me if im wrong) and wasn't compatible with alot cd/dvd drives wich resulted in a game that wouldn't start.
Securom will Never crash your game, it simply prevents it from starting.
The exe will freeze and you have to end it with the task manager before you can have a 2nd attempt.

I suspect Securom is trying to update their product by making it compatible with all cd/dvd drives and those updates come with the EP's after Bon Voyage.
When i installed Bath and Kitchen my problems were gone while it didn't fix it for others.

Securom was already in Seasons and in the special basegame cd's(with one EP included)
Nobody ever complained about it till they made a mistake, and now we want to shoot them..........

You might consider why they invented securom, to avoid piracy and that also includes the people that borrowed EP's from eachother or installed the game on more then one computer.

How would you feel when you invent something nice and your neighbor makes 100 copy's of it and gives them away for free......

Thats how i think about it. Wink
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abaris
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« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2008, 10:19:03 am »

Quote from: BlooM;1382772

How would you feel when you invent something nice and your neighbor makes 100 copy's of it and gives them away for free......

Thats how i think about it. Wink


Not the point. The point is, it doesn't do what it's supposed to do. Like with any other copy protection programms it's a laugh for those wanting to hack things and an annoyance for honest customers. And it was qualified as being a proud member of the most aggressive family of malwares some years back - namely rootkits. It doesn't matter if it's administered by a major corporation, it's still a rootkit.
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Nione
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« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2008, 04:09:54 pm »

In the state of California the installation of software, including copyright protection software on people's computers without knowledge and consent is now illegal but they are probably gambling there will be no class action suit like Sony had with a previous copyright protection software issue. I don't know about law in other states and other countries, but EA is based in California. Yes, piracy is a real problem for companies and I do understand that, but as many people have pointed out, the people who pirate have cracks (and because of Securom and Starforce etc. now many people who do not pirate have turned to those as well). I have elected not to use methods to break Securom, but to do that means I can't play any of the games I may buy without knowing they contain Securom. I am lucky that I know how to check for it, but most consumers don't and although EA has a warranty, not all companies do for games. People who BOUGHT the games are spending money on tech support with their computer manufacturer, on new hardware, because they do not at first realize their CD/DVD capability was disabled or destroyed by Securom. In some cases, the person's software tells them a burn was successful and there's actually nothing on the disc, their backup is empty. A lot of people have computers that are used for work/home business as well as gaming. Obviously someone could lose an awful lot if they didn't think to verify the backup. Think of the family photos, the financial records, all the things that people actually bother to back up. Most people do not back up games, if they back up anything. They back up items of value. Even then many software licenses allow you to make a single copy of the software for backup reasons, to protect your investment in the software.
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Tenshii~Akari
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« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2008, 07:49:57 pm »

Quote from: BlooM;1382772
Securom was already in Seasons and in the special basegame cd's(with one EP included)
Nobody ever complained about it till they made a mistake, and now we want to shoot them..........

Actually, beforehand EA had Safedisc as their anti-piracy software, and it only caused a few known hiccups (i.e. a few interferences in installing the game in normal Windows mode).  SecuRom didn't come into the picture until H&M and BV were released, and thereon after.  Trust me, if Seasons had SecuRom on it when I first bought it, I would've found it by now.  Even did the searching just in case when the news came out about it, but everything came out clean.  Wink

ETA:  And now that I have a clearer head after a good night's rest, I do agree with you on a few things, BlooM.  :angel:  They did try to protect their hard work and investments... but I guess my "sharing" mentality kinda takes over when I don't see a lot of software pirates as a major setback to the company as a whole.  I could see if they were trying to prevent people from pirating and selling the game at any price, though.  That's where there'd be a real problem.  But seeing as EA has over 100 million copies of Sims games sold, plus the fact that they're a prominent corporation in the console gaming genre (just about every RL-based sports game is made by them), should they really be that worried over it?  They have(/had) the customer loyalty and support, and as long as they keep making good games, people will buy them, despite the "free" copies roaming around.  (not condoning software pirating... people that work hard to create the games we play do deserve the profits)

My only gripe is that they have very little faith in consumers... a lot of people saw the true worth in actually buying the game up until the whole train wreck of problems they had with the new software.  Heck, a lot of people still do see the worth in spite of that fact, just not as many as before.  Now after reading up on what it can do to your computer, some people just don't want to take the risk to even try.  I'm still not willing myself, and I'm not going to take the "other" route because I personally don't think it's worth it.  Just me, of course.  Can't speak for everyone else, though.  :lol:
« Last Edit: September 17, 2008, 07:00:48 am by Tenshii~Akari » Logged

MaryH
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« Reply #55 on: September 16, 2008, 08:59:18 pm »

Quote
You might consider why they invented securom, to avoid piracy and that also includes the people that borrowed EP's from eachother or installed the game on more then one computer.

How would you feel when you invent something nice and your neighbor makes 100 copy's of it and gives them away for free......

The fact of the matter is that Securom does  not prevent piracy, or does it enhance your gaming experience.
It is full of malware, and it has a lousy track record of disabling emulation drivers, such as CD or DVD burners. It is invasive and installs itself to your inner-most computer workings. It takes forever to remove it.
In other words, it is spyware of the worst kind and it is not for your benefit. It is for EA's.
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cuddles
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« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2008, 02:40:13 pm »

Yea I didn't really know about securom until Freetime... however I always got no-cd cracks for my games so I think/hope it was never installed on my PC. In my great weakness... I got AL to finish the series. :slap:

I know many people would frown at me for giving EA money after knowing about securom... Actually my sister was pretty mad at me when I told her what I did, she's been anti-securom for some time already (she plays sims as well).  The Freetime version of Securom actually messed with her computer pretty bad so I can understand.

So what is my take on Securom: I hate Sony/Securom, I am totally disgusted with EA and I vow never to buy anything ever again after this in the hopes that one day they will get their heads out of their butts and remove Securom from all their future releases
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abaris
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« Reply #57 on: September 19, 2008, 03:10:14 pm »

Quote from: cuddles;1386910

So what is my take on Securom: I hate Sony/Securom, I am totally disgusted with EA and I vow never to buy anything ever again after this in the hopes that one day they will get their heads out of their butts and remove Securom from all their future releases


That'll be the day when the Easter bunny and father christmas make a personal appearance to shake hands.

I really want to look into the heads of these corporate suits. It has been proven again and again, that no copy protection whatsoever prevents piracy. And what do they do? They treat you to a first class rootkit, one of the most aggressive pieces of spyware on the market which also happens to fiddle with your drives and - god forbid - virtual drives.

Yes, I know, they have to introduce some kind of protection to be legally on the safe side should they happen to stumble over a pirate, but any piece of protection would do that kind of job. No need for rolling out the nukes.

But make no mistake about it. People will keep on buying. Kids pestering their parents and mummy or daddy, who haven't got a clue about securom will stare in silent wonder at their rigs and ask themselves why all over sudden their rigs don't do what they should do anymore.
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nobody7382
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« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2008, 03:52:45 pm »

I have no problem with Securom and never did. If any of you have been playing games (other than the Sims) over the past 15 years, then you knew about Securom long ago.

I have 10 year old games still on my pc that use securom protection. I would classify it as being less invasive than Starforce.

Like or not, I think around 50% of all games that come out these days have Securom. So are you going to quit playing games just because they have a copy protection? You just insert the disc and play. It's no big deal.

And no, Securom does not destroy computers or fry your dvd drive. Anyone who says stuff like that (especially on the official ea Sims 2 forums) is probably making up stories to get attention or else they don't know much about computers and are mistaken.

So, Securom is fine by me. The developer can do whatever they want to protect their game. I guess if you don't like it then don't buy the Sims 2 or 50% of the other games that came out last month either :smt120
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MaryH
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« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2008, 09:30:58 pm »

I would like to respectfully disagree with every single statement you made.
SecuRom has disabled entire drives, DVD players, CD players and destroyed entire systems. There are hundreds, if not thousands of gamers who have had to replace parts of or their entire computer for what it does to it.
It is not a figment of our imagination that it is spyware, or harmful.
SecuRom has not been out for more than 5 years. Before it was used, EA used another type of DRM which was quite less onerous.
About 75%  of games now being made are using SecuRom.
If you would like more information about the reality of what it does, please visit the website in my sig.
I think you would learn a lot about this issue.
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