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Author Topic: Paysite Discussion Thread  (Read 64315 times)
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djslippyman
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« Reply #120 on: July 21, 2007, 04:41:42 pm »

Well the key point is that any lawsuit would have to be for a reason.  There is no money in suing Simpe or Inteen. How has the Sims been damaged by these mods?  

Likewise if a site like Peggy or TSR which has a steady and regular income from being a paysite then EA would have a motive and a reason (to retrieve all those profits off THEIR game) to go after them.  Plus they would only have to do it once to a big leaguer and other paysites would either go freesite or run for the hills. Also its the most likely in that they would send legal warning letters first before they started actually pursuing it in court.

These issues will continue into Sims 3 so I don't see why we shouldn't be discussing them and fixing the problem before it continues into the next game (where EA is likely to be more proactive and restrictive the next time if its still an issue).

There is no reason why the discussion level has to be at a hysterical pitch though.  I really don't see paysite owners arguing for their existance in here on a freesite so I think the other "party" isn't even at the discussion table.  They simply rarely take part in our community.

By all means if anyone dosen't like the discussion or the "drama" then you or anyone don't have to take part in it.  I don't have a clue why people would take part in a thread that they aren't interested in or one where they've yet to formulate an actual opinion in one way or the other.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 04:45:06 pm by djslippyman » Logged

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kathy
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« Reply #121 on: July 21, 2007, 04:57:54 pm »

Perhaps because these mods have raised the game from a Teen rating to a Mature rating? There is a reason that they won't allow discussion of these mods on the BBS and it isn't just because they don't like custom content.
 
And exactly how are you fixing the problem? It seems to me that people are only adding to the problem. There is no easy fix for this problem and since it has been going on since the Sims 1 I don't see it disappearing any time soon either.
 
People have two choices, pay for content or don't pay for content. Strong arming them and telling them how evil paysites are isn't going to solve anything. Ultimately people have to decide for themselves whether the content is worth the money and decide if they wish to go that route. Why anyone thinks it's their duty to tell people what to do with their money beats the hell out of me.
 
And in regards to your last statement, incase you haven't noticed, I own this site. I will participate in any discussion and in any manner I see fit. The only reason this discussion is allowed to go on is because I am allowing it.
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miros1
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« Reply #122 on: July 21, 2007, 05:04:33 pm »

Quote from: djslippyman;836959
I really don't see paysite owners arguing for their existance in here on a freesite so I think the other "party" isn't even at the discussion table.  They simply rarely take part in our community.


I beg to differ.  

I ran a founding site, The Wooden Simolean, on SimsHost for 5 years.  Although my participation level varied from time to time, I was active on a variety of boards (not including this one, silly me) and egroups for all of that time.

Greg Bennett ran all of SimsHost.  Check the profile for "Chairman Greg,"  he's been here and active for quite some time.

Other than that, why should a paysite owner bother coming to a board to get themselves ripped a new one?  Or they're incognito because they've learned the truth of "Don't teach pigs to sing.  It's a waste of your time and annoys the pig."
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djslippyman
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« Reply #123 on: July 21, 2007, 05:29:58 pm »

Well certainly.  I'm not trying to tick you off Kathy.

The two options as you say (pay or don't pay) is correct.  What I'm arguing is you can change the balance and I think it is having an effect.  I'm not expecting TSR to shut down anytime soon but i think the smaller paysites are feeling the pinch in the wallet.  Either they are doing this for the love of the game or they are doing it for the money. If its for the money they'll probably be rethinking that decision soon as it's drying up.  

I don't see any reason for not being able to voice warning on paying for content as many people (lots of them kids) still don't know, the discussions are often stymied. It probably would make sense the voice it more on TSR then here but that won't happen.

Again you brought up that its a Teen game as it is.  Should paysites be taking teenagers money (or their parents for that matter) if its not supposed to be legal?  Is that fair to the kids?  

I do think the adult content is kept away from the kids in an adequite fashion and I certainly don't see a tons of the modders are from that same age group.  Of course their interests will vary as the Sims can adapt to fit anyone's interest and that's why it has been so successful.

Again I don't think a healthy discussion on the subject is a bad thing.  It's certainly more interesting read then a 7 page thread on "What was your 1st EVER sim called? ".  :angel:
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djslippyman
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« Reply #124 on: July 21, 2007, 05:40:49 pm »

Quote from: miros1;836994
I beg to differ.  

I ran a founding site, The Wooden Simolean, on SimsHost for 5 years.  Although my participation level varied from time to time, I was active on a variety of boards (not including this one, silly me) and egroups for all of that time.

Greg Bennett ran all of SimsHost.  Check the profile for "Chairman Greg,"  he's been here and active for quite some time.

Other than that, why should a paysite owner bother coming to a board to get themselves ripped a new one?  Or they're incognito because they've learned the truth of "Don't teach pigs to sing.  It's a waste of your time and annoys the pig."


Alright that's two examples. I don't see any posts by you in this thread so again if you want to discuss paysites plz pull up a chair and speak. I'm curious as how it is from the other side. I can understand how before EA made a decision it was a different existence but I think things have changed where its hard to say "I didn't know it was wrong".
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kathy
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« Reply #125 on: July 21, 2007, 05:50:54 pm »

Quote
Again you brought up that its a Teen game as it is. Should paysites be taking teenagers money (or their parents for that matter) if its not supposed to be legal? Is that fair to the kids?

Now this part of the arguement is the only one I have an opinion on anymore, especially since I am a mother of two children. It sucks for kids, there is no doubt about it. However, don't children have to learn you can't have everything in life just because you want it or believe you are entitled to it?
 
As a mother I have to deal with that arguement on an almost daily basis. Mom I want such and such... yeah well the answer is no... but wahhhh I want it and I should have it because I cleaned my room or didn't argue with my sister (insert other excuse here).
 
Kids have to learn they can't have everything just because they want it. If they don't learn this early on then we have an epidemic of spoiled little brats who are out of control... wait we already have this.
 
Quote
Again I don't think a healthy discussion on the subject is a bad thing. It's certainly more interesting read then a 7 page thread on "What was your 1st EVER sim called?

I don't think the discussion is unhealthy per se but I'm bored and Eric won't argue with me.
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PegasusDiana
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« Reply #126 on: July 21, 2007, 05:59:04 pm »

I don't think Kathy is angry at you, at least I don't get that impression. I just think she's getting tired of the whole argument on both sides. Both sides have done some very ugly things to each other. Which isn't going to solve anything. EA has said to several people they are gathering evidence, so we have to sit back and just let them do what it is they need to do. We also will have to respect their decision no matter which way it goes. People have made it into a my side must win thing like it's a game/competition. Everyone wants thier side to be right. When as Beos has stated over and over...the problem we are not seeing and he's not just saying it against free sites. His comments have been directed at both sides, is that we could all end up loosing in the long run...they could very well just say it's gone too far with the Sims 2 and package the Sims 3 in a way we can't add CC. That would stop both sides in their tracks.
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djslippyman
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« Reply #127 on: July 21, 2007, 06:03:49 pm »

I agree with you Kathy in that people should make the final choice.  If someone has seen all the discussion, heard all the arguments, and still wants to buy CC then let them.  Its a foolish decision (especially if the same files are free on PMBD) but until the paysites themselves are a thing of the past then its going to still happen.  It is harder for kids of course but you are right that its a prime example in that wanting and needing are two entirely different things.

I too am tired but thanks for talking about it Kathy :argue: Its much better then posting in a thread and never expecting to read it again or care about the responses.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 06:10:13 pm by djslippyman » Logged

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djslippyman
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« Reply #128 on: July 21, 2007, 06:09:18 pm »

Quote from: PegasusDiana;837023
I don't think Kathy is angry at you, at least I don't get that impression. I just think she's getting tired of the whole argument on both sides. Both sides have done some very ugly things to each other. Which isn't going to solve anything. EA has said to several people they are gathering evidence, so we have to sit back and just let them do what it is they need to do. We also will have to respect their decision no matter which way it goes. People have made it into a my side must win thing like it's a game/competition. Everyone wants thier side to be right. When as Beos has stated over and over...the problem we are not seeing and he's not just saying it against free sites. His comments have been directed at both sides, is that we could all end up loosing in the long run...they could very well just say it's gone too far with the Sims 2 and package the Sims 3 in a way we can't add CC. That would stop both sides in their tracks.


Ok thanks.Cheesy  I understand that argument that it may well affect Sims3.  I personally would like the community to work it out internally before EA gets involved but as you say they will make the inevitable decision if they decide to take action and will make key decisions on CC as they develop and release Sims 3.
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kathy
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« Reply #129 on: July 21, 2007, 06:16:59 pm »

I think there has been too much damage done in the community for us to work it out ourselves, one of the main reasons I have pulled away from the entire thing. I mean I look at Eric who has been working on the InSIM for 3 yrs this coming November and I hate the idea of all of his work going down the drain because of all the shit that has occurred the last 9 months.
 
Sites are expensive to run, especially large ones. And when you have to struggle to pay your server bills it is a bit discouraging. I think a step in helping the community is if sites such as Peggy were to offer free days. If her site costs are too much for her to handle on donations alone then I don't see why she couldn't say ok after I have made x amount to cover this months bill then the site is free for the rest of the month. It won't happen but it would be a start.
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djslippyman
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« Reply #130 on: July 21, 2007, 06:26:14 pm »

I do agree that any big site can't be expected to last unless they use advertising or get occasional donations from users.  Even freesites with high volume can run up serious bills.  If MTS2's downloads issues can be solved by asking for more financial help then I think they should make their situation more evident and should get the communal support that we all preach.  

But donation packs which require payment and pay cc is the deal breaker for me.  If Peggy went free and paid for her site off advertising or donations she'd be alright by me. "Free days" would be a step in the right decision but would ultimately be something that would rarely be implemented except for paysites on the fence on the issue.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 06:27:57 pm by djslippyman » Logged

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kathy
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« Reply #131 on: July 21, 2007, 06:40:34 pm »

That is a problem in itself.. Communal Support. Now if lets say 5% of users who frequent a site would actually donate and help I think we would see more free sites, sadly this isn't the case. Hence the need for donation drives.
 
If lets say a site has 2 donation sets, reasonably priced or given to anyone who makes a donation, regardless of the amount, and has a fair amount of free content I would consider them a lesser problem than lets say Peggy, TSR, or Rose. While it would still be preferable if they were completely free it still wouldn't seem like they were strictly in it for the money.
 
While until a month or so ago I despised any and all paysites I have now said screw it all. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter to me unless I happen to be bored and want to play both sides of it just for giggles.
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djslippyman
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« Reply #132 on: July 21, 2007, 06:50:52 pm »

I'd have to agree with you Kathy.  I know PMBD would disagree on the donation pack for $$ but if its entirely a free site except for that (AND) the donation items are nice and moderately price I'd probably fold and think it was a decent idea to get something for that occasional $5-10.  After all Holy Simoly has done something similar and its hard to argue that its a ripoff.  

So Kathy you like to argue simply for amusement now? :smt116  LOL Shame on you!! :iconbigg:

By the way your avatar is hot, might as well tell you.:worship:
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 06:53:51 pm by djslippyman » Logged

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kathy
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« Reply #133 on: July 21, 2007, 06:52:38 pm »

hahaha I'm bored and Eric is dealing with the kids tonight
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miros1
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« Reply #134 on: July 21, 2007, 06:53:21 pm »

Quote from: djslippyman;837017
Alright that's two examples. I don't see any posts by you in this thread so again if you want to discuss paysites plz pull up a chair and speak. I'm curious as how it is from the other side. I can understand how before EA made a decision it was a different existence but I think things have changed where its hard to say "I didn't know it was wrong".


I haven't posted in this thread before because I'm in the group which is completely tired of attempting to teach pigs to sing and failing miserably.  I know from experience in similar discussions, which are posted all over the web, including several egroups, that the number of people who can be convinced that the other side has any merits at all is vanishingly small, what we used to call "within epsilon of zero" in Advanced Calculus.  Most of that small number are people new to downloading or creating, so I respond to their requests (most of them are actually nice enough to ask) for information with what is generally accepted practice and what will get them ripped a new one.  I also tell people who are doing the equivalent of shrieking about their "legal rights" or "what they can do and no one can stop them" or whatever to shut up and get a life.  

Your response where you still assume I did something wrong by being involved with a paysite indicates to me you're one of the unteachable.  

Your previous post just annoyed me enough to answer.  Believe me, I'm peeved enough to use some words that you may or may not deserve, but Kathy would be forced to ban me for using, and I respect her enough to obey her rules.  Don't attempt to bait me.  I've "met" far too many people similar to you.

My final position on the whole issue:  Respect the creators' wishes.  Don't post pay site items on free sites or free items on pay sites.  No one has to justify their position to anyone, much less to each individual who wishes to criticize them.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 07:09:43 pm by miros1 » Logged

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