Paysite Discussion Thread
SolidGoldFunk:
Quote from: miros1;839315
I was not being nasty. If you wanna see nasty, scroll up and read my previous post about not teaching pigs to sing. I am not saying you're a pig that can't be taught to sing, like the poster I was responding to above.
In my response to you, I was stating simple facts in a blunt manner. You asked, I answered, now you know.
To continue answering:
Please lose the "free up space" concept. That's only valid for Yahoo! egroups or incredibly small hosting packages that are probably completely insufficient for a Sim site anyhow. Space on a server's hard drive is cheap.
The boogeyman of all Sim sites is bandwidth, which has to be paid for as it's consumed or the hosting company shuts the site down until the next month. You'll notice that Eric's donation drive posts talks about paying for bandwidth, not server space. The rules about file types and compressing submitted files are to reduce bandwidth consumption, both upload and download, not to save "space."
Your "authorized redistribution" idea is somewhat similar to having a "mirror site," where if the main site goes down, a secondary site takes over. All it does is switch around who pays for the bandwidth. I doubt many people have enough excess bandwidth to host very much of someone else's stuff. Not a bad idea, just not practical.
Example: I worked for a small company who once agreed to "mirror" a development tool for programmers. Big mistake. Their downloaders devoured the bandwidth we needed for our operations and company website. They were looking for another mirror within days.
BTW, I recommend that the non-creator commentors (which clearly doesn't include SolidGoldFunk, who makes very nice houses) on this thread try actually submitting something, no matter how simple. Taking something from a concept in your head all the way through the process of creation, import, checking with SimPE or CleanInstaller and in the game, screenshot, uploading, composing the post to describe it and give credit where due is not trivial. Yes, each step is easy, some ridiculously so, but each step is either crucial to the process or makes your creation more easily used by the downloaders. When you've done this process at least once all the way through, then we'll talk about who is entitled to make the free or pay decision for my stuff!
I'll attempt answer any questions on creation or submission. Just ask. Right now, I'm answering this thread instead of looking for an answer to someone's problem with screenshots.
My "anti-paysite rant," just to be even handed: If you're going to charge people, your product should be as close to perfect as humanly possible, or you fix it the first time there's a complaint (on technical merit, not artistic). I'm not the most prolific creator out there, but my stuff works in the game and does what it's supposed to!
I do contribute to paysites. I don't contribute to ones with a reputation for shoddy workmanship and not responding to complaints. I think we all know which sites those are. I also don't download their stuff from PMBD and attempt to justify taking all of it because some of their files are shoddy.
If I were going to donate for a particular item, I might download it to make sure it's good quality, then pay for it.
Rosalie A. Dieteman
Software Engineer
Rose/Miros
Former Webmistress, The Wooden Simolean, a SimsHost subscriber supported site
Asking someone to "be real" sounds nasty, especially when I stated from the beginning that I don't know how this works. To tell me to "be real" is making the assumption that I know how everything works. In my mind I was being real. This is typing not talking so it's hard to get the attitude behind the words. I apologize for misinterpreting your mood.
Also, I didn't just come up with this "free up space" concept out of the blue. I read it on one of the sites saying that they need the money to continue hosting the files since they take up a lot of space and of course bandwidth. Why is it such an impractical idea? Many creators have their stuff featured on different websites anyway. Just don't limit your creations to one and don't have the same items featured on too many websites. Sure that means more searching around for us cc fanatics but I think it will be worth it.
I know what you mean about shoddy work though. I think The Sims Resource has some creators with shoddy work. The majority of the stuff there seems okay to me, even though I don't use that site much anymore since they have such strict policies on using items and the creators don't write back when you ask for permission to use their stuff. This takes away from something that people make such as a house or a sim. Anyway, that's another story but as for the paysites... I still think people should be allowed to charge for their content. However, like you said, if they are going to charge then it should be as close to perfect as humanly possible.
To counter your argument that people should be able to donate after they see it works well... I don't think that some paysites would make the money they want/ need. People may get the product and no matter how well it works or how much they love it they probably won't donate. I know I would, you know you would but I don't think people are that honest.
Athena
Sandman&Co:
I don't mess with paysites I donate to Freesites when I can
miros1:
Quote from: SolidGoldFunk;839326
Asking someone to "be real" sounds nasty, especially when I stated from the beginning that I don't know how this works. To tell me to "be real" is making the assumption that I know how everything works. In my mind I was being real. This is typing not talking so it's hard to get the attitude behind the words. I apologize for misinterpreting your mood.
The number one rule of creative work of any type is "keep a master copy that is 100% under your control." That's what I meant by "be real." Anyone who trusts anyone else, mother, sister, best friend, with the master copy is naive. Anyone who trusts someone they met on the Internet with the master copy is an idiot.
Quote from: SolidGoldFunk;839326
Also, I didn't just come up with this "free up space" concept out of the blue. I read it on one of the sites saying that they need the money to continue hosting the files since they take up a lot of space and of course bandwidth.
If they don't have enough "space," they're on a hosting package that is way, way, way inadequate for their needs. I hope part of their incoming donations went to pay for a better package, which got them more "space" and more "bandwidth", rather than just paying for bandwidth as it was consumed. You usually also get a better price per megabyte or gigabyte in a package, rather than as "overage charges."
BTW, I started in April 2001 with a Tripod site and about 6 files. I had more "space" than I could use at the time. My site was down for bandwidth more than it was up!
Quote from: SolidGoldFunk;839326
I know what you mean about shoddy work though. I think The Sims Resource has some creators with shoddy work. The majority of the stuff there seems okay to me, even though I don't use that site much anymore since they have such strict policies on using items and the creators don't write back when you ask for permission to use their stuff.
Yes, some of the stuff at TSR is shoddy. There are certain creators that I've put on a mental blacklist, and I just don't download their stuff. Odds are, they're the same people who can't be bothered to respond to permission requests.
Every TSR creator I've contacted for permission has written back promptly, usually under 24 hours, and most said yes unless they've got an exclusive deal with TSR. Same goes for items that needed fixing. Even the ones who have promised TSR exclusivity will let you use their stuff in a house that's posted on TSR (that's the purpose of TSRAA).
Quote from: SolidGoldFunk;839326
To counter your argument that people should be able to donate after they see it works well...
That's not what I said. If I absolutely fell in love with a certain item from a site that I know has a reputation for shoddy work, I'd do my best to make sure this particular item is not shoddily made, even going as far as to download a hot copy of it. If I can't find any "positive reviews," "hot copies," etc., well, I'm out an item that I might have gained quite a bit of fun from... and the creator is out $2.50 or whatever price they put on the item. They should have taken better care of their reputation. You only get one chance to make a first impression.
Rose/Miros
SolidGoldFunk:
I guess I misunderstood then.
sakrayami:
ok, i try again. As to the topic. I do not create sims2 content, i use 3d-programs for other reasons. I am a customer of EA, and the only protection i can get is via their EULA. That's why so many people stick to the EULA arguments, cause that's the only protection they have.
It's not a guestion of money to me. It's a question whether it's right or wrong to claim money for CC - when stated clearly in the EULA that filesharing are ok, sale of CC is not. Nouk has given a good example - her response from EA should be valid enough. That was an answer from EA support on usermade tools. There is 1 EULA for bodyshop, 1 for homecrafter, and 1 when you install the game. Click, accept and agree.
Reverse engineering is also mentioned in the EULA for bodyshop, i understand this is fully legal for own use, and filesharing, but not for sale.
PS or ETA: Kathy, hope you're in a better mood, i like your avi, i love Inseminator, i am addicted to that toy, and i have fun in the adult-section when i first am there. I am very thankful to the guys who created Inseminator. Straight from my heart that is!
I always thanks the artist of free content, don't clutter anyones guestbooks, are polite and kind.
I can of course only speak for myself, as a downloader of your CC. I rather prefer freesites, in my location or elsewhere in this big world. Free-sites are more polite, and very helpful. I also think they have great content. When someone claim donation from me to unlock a file, so i can download it, it's not a donation, it's sale. I am a bit surprised that creators of skins and other CC support paysites when they create for free themself? Could anyone enlighten me?
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