Paysite Discussion Thread

[Tenshii~Akari]

Isn't it a known fact, or somewhat, that beosboxboy is "pro-paysite" ? Could this be why he's arguing,or it seems to me at least, against Nouk? I see it as it reads, as soon as Sims 2 loads up whatever the hell you made, it becomes more or less property of EA.

He's already stated his position...

And I was about to input my sentiments on the previous comments, but it seems Paden has beat me to it.  Couldn't have put it any better myself!  :angel:

[Inge Jones]

Isn't it a known fact, or somewhat, that beosboxboy is "pro-paysite" ? Could this be why he's arguing,or it seems to me at least, against Nouk? I see it as it reads, as soon as Sims 2 loads up whatever the hell you made, it becomes more or less property of EA.

Of course, EA have yet to test their EULA in a court of law.  It could turn out they would lose if they tried to claim copyright on someone else's work.  Maybe they suspect that would be the case which is why they have not tried to enforce it.  The EULA may be "empty words" written simply to encourage us to share freely.

[vanessa]

How can you think Beos is pro paysites when he gives his creations here,for free?

[vanessa]

Nouk,I'm not trying to disrespect you,I like your creations,but I understand Beos.I'm playing Sims to escape too,everything is beautyfull and funny in my game.Sometimes I'm reading treads about torturing and killing sims(yes,I know it's a game) and I don't realy want to put those pictures into my brain,so I've learned to avoid those treads.Regarding the pay sites - I couldn't care less,I'm never buying anything only because I 'm not using my visa card on Internet.Some days ago,I found some sim furnitures on a site and I wanted them badly,but I restrained myself.(just say NO,LOL)
I don't think EA will take action against paysites,we have TSR,a huge PR resource for EA games,I'm sure they'll never take action against them.

[PegasusDiana]

I've really been pondering and thinking about this and should EA decide to do something paysite's have my sympathy. I don't agree with what they are doing. But, I also don't want to see any harm come to them. Should EA decide to do something, there won't be any cease orders like they are thinking EA has to give them, why? Because it isn't a violation of copyright, it is a violation of contract. A contract we agree too. A very legal contract, that has been tested in court. Not with EA but many other companies and they have won. It is our John Hancock we put on the dotted line when we click on agree, which is also why there is an I disagree button. Paysites could be faced with millions in fines and penalties. Copyright have set fines, violation fees. With contracts it is up to the company to set the amount they feel are their losses caused by paysites. Who knows how much EA can say they lost with 20 million players around the world. I don't want to see that happen to anyone. It's not worth the... "I was right and you were wrong." to do that to anyone, or to wish for EA to do it to them.

PS I've said this over and over, but I'm going to say it again. Ignorance of a contract you agree to is 0 grounds for a defense in a court of law. This too has been tried over and over. The moral of the story is, if you don't agree to the terms of a contract. You don't agree to abide by them. You click on I disagree and take the game, movie, etc...back to the store. Even if the store won't refund your money, the company has too, it's the law.

[Dr_Pixel]

Who knows how much EA can say they lost with 20 million players around the world.

Unless they can somehow prove that people didn't buy the game or it's expansion packs because of paysites, they can't really claim to have "lost" anything, can they?

Here is a question for everyone, no matter what side you're on:

Suppose Maxis/EA comes out and says paysites are OK?  
Yes, I know about that letter from the EA customer relations, which really doesn't say anything (typical PR letter).   If you look on Sims File Vault you will find an almost identical letter posted to Maxis/EA, and an identical response, that they got several years ago.

I mean an official statement from Maxis/EA.

Would anybody, on any side of the issue, change their mind?

Or, alternately, if they say that paysites are not OK, and must be closed - again, would any of you change your minds?

I really don't think anyone would change their thinking, in either case.

I also don't see any possible benefit to Maxis/EA getting involved in this one way or the other.  I don't mean the "community", or "the anti-paysite movement", I mean Maxis/EA - because that will be how they come at this.

[Natural_Highness]

I will say in reality not even 5% donates. This site alone, which has almost 220,000 members has only received %.003 of the members donate. This is total number of donators. People who only donate once or people who donate monthly.

I would donate. I know how to. But, I'm not sure my parents would let me.. *frowns*

[djslippyman]

Unless they can somehow prove that people didn't buy the game or it's expansion packs because of paysites, they can't really claim to have "lost" anything, can they?

Here is a question for everyone, no matter what side you're on:

Suppose Maxis/EA comes out and says paysites are OK?  

They have said the opposite of that already.  If you didn't read their comments then you can email them directly if there's confusion ( but I'd rather you read the responses they've already given).  They don't want CC sold for profit.  It's that simple. There may be legal jargon involved with their explanation but its pretty obvious what they are saying.

[kathy]

As I stated EA has been flipflopping back and forth on the issue as to whether it is legal or illegal. Just because one person is receiving a letter saying yes it is illegal doesn't mean 10 other people aren't receiving letters saying yes it is legal. We have already seen this happen.
 
The more you guys, pro or anti, want to stir the pot and contact EA to bitch about the issue the more you are jeopardizing the custom content you are so fond of downloading and bitching about.

[Ninja]

This is my opinion.

I don't like pay-sites. I don't go on pay-sites. I don't buy from pay-sites. I could get better stuff for free here.

I'm not going to waste my days bitching about pay-sites, they are not worth my time. If they wanna go ripping off people that don't know any better, it's the buyers fault for being stupid enough to buy it.

Let them go, because if we get EA involved they may just say that this site breaks the law, because of the hacks, mods etc.

If you don't like pay-sites THEN STAY AWAY FROM THEM! Disregard them, boycott them...

The last thing we need is for EA to enforce the law.

I don't really know too much about the subject, but I do know that I don't want this site, or any other free sims site, sued and shut down.

[djslippyman]

Ea's response that clears it up rather well.

http://www.noukiesims2.net/EAconfirms.gif

"If you use a tool created by Electronica Arts and wish to charge money for the content created with that tool afterwards then you are in violation of US copyright law. (several countries share and/or recognize US copyright law)."

Can we see some letters saying that it IS legal?  (From EA, not letters from paysites own lawyers i mean. I expect paysites to think they are in the right).  

I don't want to stir up the pot, EA has said what the LAw of the land is (as it should ethically be as well) and the community should enforce it without EA's assistance. If they do get involved it may be for a single site to make a point but I don't think it should even go that far. I think by posting paysite material at place's like PMBD for free (unless they would choose to be freesites in which case they would be removed), boycotting paysites to reduce their profits altogether, promoting freesites, and for establishing that paysites in general are wrong (which some people still are unaware).  

If you don't want EA involved ( I don't think anyone really wants that) then discuss it here and put words into actions. I'm sorry if people think its a "sides" issue and that its smarter to be completely uninvolved and chalk it up to being just drama thats "tearing up" the community. Why is supporting freesites and discouraging anti-paysites such an issue to some people?  

You don't want EA involved?  Then stop hiding under a rock and get involved now.  We're arguing this on a 100% freesite!  How can this still be such a scary thought to people here?  I see more people flipflopping on this issue here then I've ever seen from EA themselves.

[djslippyman]

I don't really know too much about the subject, but I do know that I don't want this site, or any other free sims site, sued and shut down.

Its a freesite, stop saying the sky is falling.  Ea games has not gone after a single paysite and they won't EVER go after a freesite.  Why would you think their statements would ever indicate that they would?  If anything TSR by waffling might be a prime target but even then they might be overlooked to go after a sticter definition of a large paysite (Peggy for example).

[kathy]

Why don't you read the entire EULA before you pick through what you want to use to argue your point. If you want to get technical any site that offers material that reverse engineers or raises the games rating would be in violation. That's because it doesn't fit into the great "paysite debate" and people only choose to read and interpret the things they wish to to get their own way.
 
Something of interest Battlefield 2.
 
 
Also...
 

You may include materials created with the Tools & Materials on your personal noncommercial website for the noncommercial benefit of the fan community for EA’s products, provided this is beneficial to the product(s) in EA’s judgment, and provided that if you do so, you must also post the following notice on your site on the same web page(s) where those materials are located: “This site is not endorsed by or affiliated with Electronic Arts, or its licensors. Trademarks are the property of their respective owners. Game content and materials copyright Electronic Arts Inc. and its licensors. All Rights Reserved.”

Now considering the InSIMenator allows abortion, cutting parental ties which could be used to allow incest and whatever options Eric has in it now that may piss them off, the InTeen allowing teen pregnancies, InSIMadult, SexySims2, SpicySims all with their adult content how are any of these free sites not breaking the EULA?

[djslippyman]

I just don't understand your argument. The EULA statement is still mostly and always insistant in many places that content should not be for commercial use.

Electronic Arts Inc, and its subsidiaries, affiliates and licensors (collectively, "EA") grants you a non- transferable non-exclusive license to download and/or install and use one copy of the software tool ("Tool") and/or materials ("Materials") (collectively the "Tools & Materials") solely for your personal noncommercial use in connection with EA's products, in accordance with the terms below.

EA owns all of the rights, title and interest in the Tools & Materials. You may not alter any of EA's trademarks or logos, or alter or remove any of EA's trademark or copyright notices included in or with the Tools & Materials or EA's products. Your right to use Tools & Materials is limited to the license grant above, and you may not otherwise copy, display, distribute, perform, publish, modify, create works from, or use any of the Tools & Materials. Without limiting the preceding sentence, you may not modify, reverse engineer, disassemble, license, transfer, distribute, create works from, or sell the Tool, or use the Tools & Materials to further any commercial or unlawful purpose. Without limiting the foregoing, you may not use the Tools & Materials to promote another product or business, or on any site that operates or promotes a server emulator.

Again as InTeen, Insim, Simpe, etc are not being used commercially. I don't see how the EULA applies to them in away that they have anything to fear.  I also think these programs clearly have many more benefits than any of the "grey" side mods that you are discussing. The only ones who make a big deal about these programs are often sites like TSR who ban links to Insim (and MTS for some bizarre reasons) because of the kiddies (and because they want to discourage people leaving the TSR to get completely free CC and real assitance with questions).  

Again, the point is moot if EA does nothing and if they do anything it will be against a paysite.

[kathy]

In all likelyhood they won't do anything about anything. They are obviously having the same problem with other games and will not even comment on it. If it isn't hurting them then why should they waste the time and resources?
 
Meh.. The entire thing is rather boring and pointless but basically if they wish to pursue the issue they could pursue it against modders as well. Frankly I am tired of all of it, both sides.
 
All of this bickering between sites, creators with their over-enflated egos and community members who think they are entitled to something just because they bought the game can fall off the face of the earth as far as I'm concerned as well. It is absurd that people are spending this much energy bitching over a game, a game that will be long forgotten when the Sims 3 is released.